Infamous 52M PCN received at Bank Junction Options

[tompa]

Hi everyone,

I have received a PCN from CoL about a 52M contravention occured on 31/12/2018. My GPS just made me drive through but could see any signage indicating that its not permitted. I have one day left to appeal.

PCN






I have done most of my homework and read a lot on the forum about other 52M cases. Certain parts are not easy to understand for me and seeking your kind help to appeal and get it cancelled.

Please see

I can't see any road signs on the picture. I found some info on the PCN's payment website, where they uploaded a map about the road signs so I'm not sure if I have any ground to appeal on this. What do you think?

Also, the video won't load on my PC or on my mobile so can't access that evidence. Do they do this deliberately or do I have a browser issue (I even tried IE and no luck)

Many thanks or your answers.

This post has been edited by tompa: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 14:49

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[nosferatu1001]

Wrong forum. You need the decrim council section
Hit REPORt and ask a mod to move it.

[cp8759]

I've asked a mod to move this to the correct part of the forum. What you have is a civil PCN, so it's not a criminal matter. Post the PCN in full (all sides of all pages), redacting name and address only. If you send me the PCN details in a PM, I'll see if I can post the video for you.

[tompa]

Many thanks appreciate your help. I'll send the PM now.

I've asked a mod to move this to the correct part of the forum. What you have is a civil PCN, so it's not a criminal matter. Post the PCN in full (all sides of all pages), redacting name and address only. If you send me the PCN details in a PM, I'll see if I can post the video for you.

[tompa]

I've asked a mod to move this to the correct part of the forum. What you have is a civil PCN, so it's not a criminal matter. Post the PCN in full (all sides of all pages), redacting name and address only. If you send me the PCN details in a PM, I'll see if I can post the video for you.

Thanks for the info, I just did. Hope it's at the right place now.

[tompa]

Can other members
read this topic after being transfered?

[PASTMYBEST]

Can other members
read this topic after being transfered?

Yes.

The signage has been found to be non compliant with the regulations as per this case

2180198194

Representations are made by Mr Dogan on the basis that the signage in Lombard Street does not comply with the requirements of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The appellant refers to a decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton appeal 2170469229. In that appeal the Adjudicator initially adjourned the appeal and asked the City of London to explain why the legend Bus Gate was not on the carriageway. The Enforcement Authority did not reply. The appeal was allowed on the basis that the requirement for the legend Bus Gate was mandatory. No application for review was made.
In this appeal the local authority argues that the legend Bus Gate is not mandatory because there is no link from the Route for Bus and Cycle Only sign in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The case summary does not refer to Schedule 9 Part 5 para 1 TSRGD 2016 which provides that the information etc. of a description in column 2 of an item in the sign table in Part 6 “must” be conveyed by a road marking shown in column 3. The legend bus gate is one of the items in column 3 of part 6 of Schedule 9.

Item 15 of the sign table in part 6 contains the description ” Road or part of a road with access permitted only for buses and other vehicles when so indicated by any of the signs at items 10, 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 in the sign table in Part 2 of Schedule 3”.

The restricted access of that type in the present case is indicated by a (permitted variant of) a sign to Diagram 953 shown in the Schedule 3 Part 2 sign table at item 33.
I find that the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 state that the bus gate legend is mandatory.
The local authority refers to a decision of Adjudicator John Lane. I am not bound by the decision of any Adjudicator. In this case I follow the decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton.
The appellant was well aware that the restriction was in operation and to that extent the appeal has little merit. Previous Penalty Charge Notices issued to the appellant had been cancelled.
I am satisfied that the bus gate requirement is mandatory therefore I must allow this appeal.

[tompa]

Thank you for your answer. So the signage doesn't comply on Lombard St but is this the case in my contravention? I drove on Queen Victoria St to enter the junction

Can other members
read this topic after being transfered?

Yes.

The signage has been found to be non compliant with the regulations as per this case

2180198194

Representations are made by Mr Dogan on the basis that the signage in Lombard Street does not comply with the requirements of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The appellant refers to a decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton appeal 2170469229. In that appeal the Adjudicator initially adjourned the appeal and asked the City of London to explain why the legend Bus Gate was not on the carriageway. The Enforcement Authority did not reply. The appeal was allowed on the basis that the requirement for the legend Bus Gate was mandatory. No application for review was made.
In this appeal the local authority argues that the legend Bus Gate is not mandatory because there is no link from the Route for Bus and Cycle Only sign in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The case summary does not refer to Schedule 9 Part 5 para 1 TSRGD 2016 which provides that the information etc. of a description in column 2 of an item in the sign table in Part 6 “must” be conveyed by a road marking shown in column 3. The legend bus gate is one of the items in column 3 of part 6 of Schedule 9.

Item 15 of the sign table in part 6 contains the description ” Road or part of a road with access permitted only for buses and other vehicles when so indicated by any of the signs at items 10, 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 in the sign table in Part 2 of Schedule 3”.

The restricted access of that type in the present case is indicated by a (permitted variant of) a sign to Diagram 953 shown in the Schedule 3 Part 2 sign table at item 33.
I find that the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 state that the bus gate legend is mandatory.
The local authority refers to a decision of Adjudicator John Lane. I am not bound by the decision of any Adjudicator. In this case I follow the decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton.
The appellant was well aware that the restriction was in operation and to that extent the appeal has little merit. Previous Penalty Charge Notices issued to the appellant had been cancelled.
I am satisfied that the bus gate requirement is mandatory therefore I must allow this appeal.

[cp8759]

For some reason the council's video doesn't work, I think your video didn't get uploaded correctly. However it's not a legal requirement to provide the video online so that's not as helpful as it might be. Anyway, here's a draft representation, keep all bold, italics and bold italics exactly as I have used them below:

-----------------------
Dear Sir or Madam,

I submit that the alleged contravention did not occur due to inadequate signage. The sign used by the enforcement authority at this location is diagram 953 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, which is found at item 33 of the table in Part 2 of Schedule 3 (with the word "taxi" omitted, this being a permitted variant).

Paragraph 1 of Part 5 of Schedule 9 provides as follows (my emphasis):

"The information, requirement, restriction or prohibition of a description in column 2 of an item in the sign table in Part 6 must be conveyed by a road marking that is of the size, colour and type shown in the diagram in column 3."

Item 15 of Part 6 of Schedule 9, i.e. diagram 1048.5, is a bus gate road marking and it bears the following description: "Road or part of a road with access permitted only for buses and other vehicles when so indicated by any of the signs at items 10, 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 in the sign table in Part 2 of Schedule 3".

As the council is relying on item 33 from Part 2 of Schedule 3, the road making provided at item 15 of Part 6 of Schedule 9 must be used to convey the restriction, as required by paragraph 1 of Part 5 of Schedule 9. The same was confirmed by the tribunal in Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194):

"Representations are made by Mr Dogan on the basis that the signage in Lombard Street does not comply with the requirements of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The appellant refers to a decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton appeal 2170469229. In that appeal the Adjudicator initially adjourned the appeal and asked the City of London to explain why the legend Bus Gate was not on the carriageway. The Enforcement Authority did not reply. The appeal was allowed on the basis that the requirement for the legend Bus Gate was mandatory. No application for review was made.

In this appeal the local authority argues that the legend Bus Gate is not mandatory because there is no link from the Route for Bus and Cycle Only sign in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The case summary does not refer to Schedule 9 Part 5 para 1 TSRGD 2016 which provides that the information etc. of a description in column 2 of an item in the sign table in Part 6 “must” be conveyed by a road marking shown in column 3. The legend bus gate is one of the items in column 3 of part 6 of Schedule 9.

Item 15 of the sign table in part 6 contains the description ” Road or part of a road with access permitted only for buses and other vehicles when so indicated by any of the signs at items 10, 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 in the sign table in Part 2 of Schedule 3”.

The restricted access of that type in the present case is indicated by a (permitted variant of) a sign to Diagram 953 shown in the Schedule 3 Part 2 sign table at item 33.

I find that the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 state that the bus gate legend is mandatory.

The local authority refers to a decision of Adjudicator John Lane. I am not bound by the decision of any Adjudicator. In this case I follow the decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton.

The appellant was well aware that the restriction was in operation and to that extent the appeal has little merit. Previous Penalty Charge Notices issued to the appellant had been cancelled.

I am satisfied that the bus gate requirement is mandatory therefore I must allow this appeal."

As the mandatory road marking is missing, the signage does not comply with the statutory requirements. In light of this, you must now agree that the only reasonable course of action is to cancel the PCN. To pursue enforcement any further would be wholly unreasonable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your answer. So the signage doesn't comply on Lombard St but is this the case in my contravention? I drove on Queen Victoria St to enter the junction

The signage on Queen Victoria Street is exactly the same: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5131151,-...6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 15:24

[tompa]

Wow, I have never expected such a detailed draft. Thank you so much, I'll submit my appeal and will kepp the topic updated. Fingers crossed

For some reason the council's video doesn't work, I think your video didn't get uploaded correctly. However it's not a legal requirement to provide the video online so that's not as helpful as it might be. Anyway, here's a draft representation, keep all bold, italics and bold italics exactly as I have used them below:

-----------------------
Dear Sir or Madam,

I submit that the alleged contravention did not occur due to inadequate signage. The sign used by the enforcement authority at this location is diagram 953 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, which is found at item 33 of the table in Part 2 of Schedule 3 (with the word "taxi" omitted, this being a permitted variant).

Paragraph 1 of Part 5 of Schedule 9 provides as follows (my emphasis):

"The information, requirement, restriction or prohibition of a description in column 2 of an item in the sign table in Part 6 must be conveyed by a road marking that is of the size, colour and type shown in the diagram in column 3."

Item 15 of Part 6 of Schedule 9, i.e. diagram 1048.5, is a bus gate road marking and it bears the following description: "Road or part of a road with access permitted only for buses and other vehicles when so indicated by any of the signs at items 10, 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 in the sign table in Part 2 of Schedule 3".

As the council is relying on item 33 from Part 2 of Schedule 3, the road making provided at item 15 of Part 6 of Schedule 9 must be used to convey the restriction, as required by paragraph 1 of Part 5 of Schedule 9. The same was confirmed by the tribunal in Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194):

"Representations are made by Mr Dogan on the basis that the signage in Lombard Street does not comply with the requirements of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The appellant refers to a decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton appeal 2170469229. In that appeal the Adjudicator initially adjourned the appeal and asked the City of London to explain why the legend Bus Gate was not on the carriageway. The Enforcement Authority did not reply. The appeal was allowed on the basis that the requirement for the legend Bus Gate was mandatory. No application for review was made.

In this appeal the local authority argues that the legend Bus Gate is not mandatory because there is no link from the Route for Bus and Cycle Only sign in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The case summary does not refer to Schedule 9 Part 5 para 1 TSRGD 2016 which provides that the information etc. of a description in column 2 of an item in the sign table in Part 6 “must” be conveyed by a road marking shown in column 3. The legend bus gate is one of the items in column 3 of part 6 of Schedule 9.

Item 15 of the sign table in part 6 contains the description ” Road or part of a road with access permitted only for buses and other vehicles when so indicated by any of the signs at items 10, 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 in the sign table in Part 2 of Schedule 3”.

The restricted access of that type in the present case is indicated by a (permitted variant of) a sign to Diagram 953 shown in the Schedule 3 Part 2 sign table at item 33.

I find that the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 state that the bus gate legend is mandatory.

The local authority refers to a decision of Adjudicator John Lane. I am not bound by the decision of any Adjudicator. In this case I follow the decision of Adjudicator Edward Houghton.

The appellant was well aware that the restriction was in operation and to that extent the appeal has little merit. Previous Penalty Charge Notices issued to the appellant had been cancelled.

I am satisfied that the bus gate requirement is mandatory therefore I must allow this appeal."

As the mandatory road marking is missing, the signage does not comply with the statutory requirements. In light of this, you must now agree that the only reasonable course of action is to cancel the PCN. To pursue enforcement any further would be wholly unreasonable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your answer. So the signage doesn't comply on Lombard St but is this the case in my contravention? I drove on Queen Victoria St to enter the junction

The signage on Queen Victoria Street is exactly the same: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5131151,-...6384!8i8192