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Parking in parking slot with DYL, Is it possible?
rafaelruiz
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 23:44
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Hello, today I received a PCN (Manchester City Council) with Code 01: "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours".
If I see the pictures in the website, the reason says: "No Waiting At Any Time", which is a little bit confusing.

The problem here is that there are parking lines, but also double yellow lines.

This is the street in Google Maps (red car):
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4730546,-...6384!8i8192
(Attaching picture as well)


You may not appreciate the double yellow line, but you can see it at the beginning (left of red car).

My question is: can I receive a PCN for that? I had a valid ticket.

Regards,
Rafael.
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post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 23:44
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Incandescent
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 08:01
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Need a photo without the car, but from GSV it certainly looks very confusing and hence grounds for an appeal. Don't expect the council to roll over, though, you'll probably have to take them to adjudication.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 08:17
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Post council pics and PCN. use https://imgbb.com and post BBcode embed links.
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 08:28
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The interesting thing is that they appear to have repainted the lines since 2017 since this GSV shows the line abraded:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4730793,-...3312!8i6656

Mick
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DastardlyDick
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 08:57
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Looks like an almighty cock up by the Council's line painting contractors to me. The road surface is different in the parking bays and there's a line of stones around it to further mark the boundary. Some numpty has either marked out an additional bay or re-marked the yellow lines in error.
OP, if you can, go back and take your own photo's of the bay you parked in and send them in with your appeal. I'd be willing to bet the Council's photo's won't show the bay markings.




This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 08:58
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rafaelruiz
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 09:06
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Thanks for your answers.

These are the pictures from the PCN:







And these are the images I took:


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DancingDad
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 10:47
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Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ????
I parked lawfully in a clearly marked parking bay.
Your CEO pictures confirm that the markings are present and clear.
I have appended my own photos to show the bay more clearly.
I accept that there is also a worn double yellow line but as a double yellow cannot coexist with a marked parking bay, assume that the yellow lines were in error and relied upon the parking bay markings.
Given this, a PCN for parking on double yellow lines cannot be sustained.
I look forward to receiving your confirmation of this and cancellation of the PCN.
Hugs and Kisses

Cannot see much more needed then that though council may argue the toss and reject.
However, there are two sets of clear markings. Two sets of markings that cannot coexist and no priority exists that means one trumps the other.
As a driver you are entitled to rely on the ones that allow you to park
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Mr Meldrew
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 10:55
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The white bay markings are on top of the yellow lines in all the photographic evidence including Google Street View, and so in each instance were plainly painted and re-painted after the yellow lines were laid. The reasonable thing to do now would be to cancel the PCN, and councils have a duty to act reasonably when dealing with the motoring public.

This post has been edited by Mr Meldrew: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 11:02


--------------------
I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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hcandersen
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 12:58
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With respect, whether you were parked lawfully within a parking place depends in the first instance on the road markings and hours of operation correctly displayed. Irrespective of DYL or SYL, the first issue is: was the parking restriction in the parking place in effect at the time of the contravention? Only when that's determined can we get to whether another type of restriction was in place and whether this was marked correctly.

We don't know. The OP's focus has been on the yellow lines alone.

OP, there's no doubt that your photos in conjunction with the authority's show that you were parked within a parking place. So, moving on..

Were the parking place restrictions in effect? From the authority's evidence I wouldn't know because there's no traffic sign. GSV shows a simple unqualified 'P' and therefore we need the instructions on the machine. You'll need to take photos of the sign that's there now and the instructions.

Only when we've seen these will all the evidence be in play.

In the end your argument regarding the lines remains i.e. you cannot have DYL in a parking place. But you can have SYL, however, the correct signs need to be in place.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:15
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With respect to HCA
I accept the word lawful may be open to question but whether paid, outside of payment hours or whatever, IMO irrelevant.
There cannot be a DYL within a parking bay, any restrictions or conditions simply contradict.

The council cannot pick and choose which one to enforce, signage must be clear, these are not.
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lab211
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:55
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According to Manchester Council the bays are 8am-8pm, also I see what appears to be a pay and display ticket displayed on the OPs dashboard so I assume that is the valid ticket they refer to.
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rafaelruiz
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 15:36
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I had a response within a day.

"Thank you for your e-mail, which we received on 17 October 2018.

I have cancelled your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) and I am sorry for any inconvenience we may have caused you."

Thank you very much, I hope this thread can be useful for future people.

Rafael.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 16:14
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Very fast response that will do very nicely.
Hopefully they will now sort out their signs and lines.
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