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Who is at fault?, Accident
Pezzy
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 09:23
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How would the insurance company and police view the below?

https://youtu.be/pY5bRBoQ7DU
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post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 09:23
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Richy320
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 10:11
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Disagree.

Almost entirely the moped rider's fault.

He's had to stop to avoid the Porsche. Why would he think it's ok to try and push in front of a car, from the wrong side of the road, that is certain to moving with the rest of the now flowing traffic? The moped rider was in the wrong place and should have waited for a suitable gap to rejoin the traffic flow. The car was under no obligation to give way to the still stationary moped rider and was quite entitled to move with the now flowing traffic.


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post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 16:57
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QUOTE (Richy320 @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 11:11) *
Disagree.

Almost entirely the moped rider's fault.

He's had to stop to avoid the Porsche. Why would he think it's ok to try and push in front of a car, from the wrong side of the road, that is certain to moving with the rest of the now flowing traffic? The moped rider was in the wrong place and should have waited for a suitable gap to rejoin the traffic flow. The car was under no obligation to give way to the still stationary moped rider and was quite entitled to move with the now flowing traffic.


You are confusing "Right of way" (which doesn't really exist, although some road users do have "priority" in certain situations) with "avoiding an incident".

Even if the other driver is a total twit, relentlessly crashing into him because you "have right of way" doesn't make you any better. rolleyes.gif
In the video, it was obvious to me that the moped was going to go, I'd certainly have let him, as even if I'd "won" and he'd bottled out that time, he'd have been frantically trying to get round me (no doubt with a swift kick at a panel, or scything off the mirror) and sometimes it is just better to let them have the accident far enough in front that you can turn off round it.

I've seen vans pull that manoeuvre, never mind mopeds wink.gif



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andy_foster
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 19:33
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Presumably someone somewhere had a meeting and decided that "right of way" meant an absolute right to proceed, which has never existed, and is completely different to "priority" which is effectively a qualified right to proceed? Or has "right of way" as understood by rational people (basically the same as "priority" been abolished, and all road signs and lines are merely decorations?


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DancingDad
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 19:50
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 20:33) *
………. and all road signs and lines are merely decorations?

Judging by the standard of driving I see on a daily basis, many drivers believe so.
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Redivi
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 21:14
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Presumably someone somewhere had a meeting and decided that "right of way" meant an absolute right to proceed, which has never existed, and is completely different to "priority" which is effectively a qualified right to proceed?

Nice summary
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 21:33
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No indicator. Tsk, tsk...

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post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 08:59
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 20:33) *
and all road signs and lines are merely decorations?



Which is I think the point: if you can clearly see someone who is driving like this, and you crash into them, when you could have avoided it, because you expect/believe/the Law says that they will (against all historical evidence to the contrary) suddenly start to obey the lines/priorities in your favour are you blameless?

I think not.


Although the moped rider should have just gone the other side of the light, as is clearly permitted around here if you have Private Hire plates on your car wink.gif
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Redivi
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 07:18
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 20:50) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 20:33) *
………. and all road signs and lines are merely decorations?

Judging by the standard of driving I see on a daily basis, many drivers believe so.

Daughter's just spent eight months going around the world - India, Asia, South and North America

Has commented that the UK has by far the best drivers

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post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 09:29
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 08:18) *
Daughter's just spent eight months going around the world - India, Asia, South and North America

Has commented that the UK has by far the best drivers



Awful isn't it? That what you see every single day is the "best in the world" rolleyes.gif

If only there were some sort of organisation whose job it was to observe how people drive and do something about it. We could even provide them with uniforms and give them distinctive liveried vehicles to drive round that would alert people to their presence and have them on their best driving behaviour.

I'm sure I remember something like that happening in The Olden Days, I wonder why it never caught on?
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The Rookie
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 10:14
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Both guilty of DWDCA in my opinion, yes the moped rider was a dufus, but it should have been self evident to all but a blind man what he was going to do next and the car driver failed to take any avoiding action (leaving him space) at all, deserved each other.

That’s one thing about India, the car driver would have anticipated that (as the moped rider coming up the outside is normal) and let them in (or the moped gone down the wrong side regardless!).


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Slapdash
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 10:44
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When I was in India 30 year odd years ago my Sikh driver used to pray for safe transit atcthe start of every journey.

He needed to.

Must be hellish now with economic expansion beyond Ambassadord.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 11:17
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It depends on the city, Bengaleru (Bangalore) is stationary most the time, Coimbatore is almost European (admittedly at the south Mediterranean end of the scale) Ahmedabad is OK, Mumbai (Bombay) is pretty frantic, Delhi has bits of all those while Pune is an experiment in Chaos theory.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Redivi
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 20:01
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When I was in Mumbai none of the cars had wing mirrors so they could go through smaller gaps

My host at the time pointed out their new locally made luxury car that would reach 100 mph (where ?)
I recognised it as a Vauxhall Victor

He wouldn't accept that most European cars could reach that speed

In Goa had a 20+ mile trip every morning, most of the time three abreast along what would here be fortunate to be classed as a B road
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Korting
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 20:35
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I drive around London, mostly the suburbs and the moped riders are absolutely lethal. They seem to cut in and out of all types of traffic including large vehicles.

How on earth more of them are not involved in accidents, I don’t know.
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MFM
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 12:44
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 11:14) *
Both guilty of DWDCA in my opinion, yes the moped rider was a dufus, but it should have been self evident to all but a blind man what he was going to do next and the car driver failed to take any avoiding action (leaving him space) at all, deserved each other.

That’s one thing about India, the car driver would have anticipated that (as the moped rider coming up the outside is normal) and let them in (or the moped gone down the wrong side regardless!).


I disagree. The moped rider wasn't a 'dufus', he clearly disregarded any and all laws by the way he rode. If it was a car trying to force his way through the same gap and caused a similar accident, would you still blame the motorist who was in the correct lane and who had priority?

If you want to join a queue of traffic from the wrong side of the road, you should wait until it's clear for you to do so. Just because the motorist could have let him in to 'avoid an accident' doesn't mean the motorist is to blame if the moped tw@t is responsible for that accident.

By the same token, if someone was driving on the wrong side of the road and crashes into an oncoming motorist, you'll still blame both for the accident if it could be avoided somehow?
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post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 16:11
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QUOTE (MFM @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:44) *
By the same token, if someone was driving on the wrong side of the road and crashes into an oncoming motorist, you'll still blame both for the accident if it could be avoided somehow?


Avoided by a reasonably competent driver paying attention to their surroundings, yes.
If a pedestrian steps into the road 30m in front of you you can't just run them over because they are doing something wrong.

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Spandex
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 16:55
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Lets be honest here - We all know the car driver deliberately tried to shut him out because the riders stupid overtake attempt had annoyed him and he didn't want him to 'win' by getting ahead.
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