Obscured speed limit signs. |
Obscured speed limit signs. |
Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 17:35
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 15 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,407 |
About four weeks ago I was caught being 5mph over the speed limit in the village of Skirlaugh in East Yorkshire. Since there was no doubt that I was actually guilty as charged, I have now paid the £100 fine and sent my licence off to have the three penalty points added. These points are my first ever, after 43 years of safe driving. I have since discovered that the speed limit signs on Rise Road are completely obscured by the hedges and are pretty much permanently in this condition. The speed camera van was sited on the main road through the village and this is the road that I came through the village on. On this road the speed limit signs are visible, so I don't really have an excuse in that respect. Rise road is a side road that joins the main road. My questions are:
1) Was the speed camera operating illegally since there were some speed limit signs that were not visible? 2) Is it too late to do anything about it now anyway, having already accepted the fine and points? |
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 17:35
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 17:40
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
What was the limit? Were there streetlights?
1 - not operating ‘illegally’ but drivers may have a defence. 2 - yes, too late. Was a course not offered to avoid the points? -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 17:54
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,194 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
As the speed camera operator is just a witness to a crime, he’s not going to be committing any criminal offences under those circumstances.
The law is clear that it’s what happens for that driver that matters, not what may have happened had they taken a different route. In addition if the road was a restricted road by virtue of a system of street lighting then the lack of terminal signs when entering it don’t normally create a defence. As above, was a course not offered! Presumably you were doing 35 in a 30? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 18:12
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 15 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,407 |
I already did a speed awareness course last year. I actually found it to be interesting and informative. It was also very much a two way discussion and was only a little bit preachy towards the end. Yes it was 35 in a 30 zone, only very briefly but still guilty as charged. I'm not sure that it is possible to avoid this without watching your speedo so intently that you can't see where you are going but it is what it is.
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 18:29
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Ah, ok - I guess it was a restricted road by virtue of streetlighting?
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 20:16
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
Meanwhile, if you want to be "helpful" to other drivers, you could contact the relevant council and see if they'll sort out the hedges so they don't obscure the signs. Even if the council don't own the hedge, they can instruct the owner to cut it back.
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 00:02
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Yes, the signs were pretty bad when the GSV van went past in 2010 LINK just one click back and they both disappear. But there are streetlights and it is too late to do anything now anyway, except point this out to the council.
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 06:50
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 15 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,407 |
Thanks for all of your helpful responses. The village does have street lights and it is fairly obvious that it is a thirty zone, the speed limit signs on the main road are clear and there is are vehicle activated signs at both ends too so there is no excuse for me really apart from the fact that the part were I got into trouble was down hill. I'm still a bloody prat because I know the road well enough and, in any case, I should have spotted the camera van sooner. As mentioned in the OP, only vehicles entering the village from a side road would have been affected by the obscured signs. I still think that if speed limits are going to be strictly enforced in this way then all of the speed limit signs should be clearly visible and that it is criminal that they are not. I shall be contacting the local council as advised, I will let you know how I get on.
So, I will be going back to my original plan which is not to put my bicycle away for the winter as I normally do after the clocks go back. This winter I shall continue to cycle to work as every time I cycle to work it costs the government £2 in fuel duty. 50 cycle commutes later I will have my £100 back in my pocket. This post has been edited by Stonyground: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 06:59 |
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 09:06
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,194 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Of course signs should be correctly maintained, BUT, it’s the council who are responsible for that and the Police who are responsible for enforcement.
For someone caught committing a criminal offence you seem rather righteous? I commute by bike year round anyway, I average about 85% of my commutes by bike most years. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 19:25 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 18:33
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
So, I will be going back to my original plan which is not to put my bicycle away for the winter as I normally do after the clocks go back. This winter I shall continue to cycle to work as every time I cycle to work it costs the government £2 in fuel duty. 50 cycle commutes later I will have my £100 back in my pocket. One of the reasons for having fuel duty is to incentivise cleaner means of transport. You'll be helping the government meet its CO2 reduction targets. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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