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Car crash-who is at fault, Dash cam footage
Zazaa
post Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 23:04
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Hi guys,

Dash cam footage has come regarding a collision between 2 cars-who is at fault?

NB car on the left was signalling to turn left, and the bus lane was not in operation.


Ok, I can't seem to upload the video onto tinypic

how do i upload videos?



https://youtu.be/WjR43UcX0f8

This post has been edited by Zazaa: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 14:02
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post Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 23:04
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albert2008
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 07:50
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youtube, then link,
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Zazaa
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 12:39
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QUOTE (albert2008 @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 07:50) *
youtube, then link,




https://youtu.be/WjR43UcX0f8
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cp8759
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 12:58
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For ease of reference "you" below is the driver of the vehicle with the dashcam, of course we don't know if the driver is Zazaa.

The other car was clearly negligent and moved over without checking the left mirror (even if the bus lane had been in operation, there might have been a cyclist or a pedestrian attempting to cross the road). Having said that, once the car started moving I would have expected you to use the horn and due to the lack of audio we don't know if this was done. If you had the opportunity to see the car moving towards you (the video suggests you did), but didn't use the horn, the other driver's insurance can raise the issue of contributory negligence. But still, most of the fault IMO rests on the other driver.


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stamfordman
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:13
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I use bus lanes a lot but you have to anticipate that people will do what that driver did - you were going a bit fast and should proceed only if you can stop if a car signalling does cut across and as CP says always be ready to hoot. The key as with many situations is to be sure someone else knows you are there.

That said, they are to blame. What was the damage?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:20
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Korting
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:23
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We dont know what speed the driver with the dash cam was doing, but knowing that stretch of road well, it cant have been that fast. The driver on the right is at fault, he moved over and collided with the side of the dashcam drivers car. Cant see how an insurance company would see it any other way. No-one can prove whether a horn was sounded or not.

The incident took place at 12.09 am, the sounding of the horn at that time would have been illegal anyway.

The only mitigating factor (as far as the car in the right lane would have been that you were overtaking on the inside, but then he himself should not have been in the outside lane to start with.
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666
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:23
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 12:58) *
For ease of reference "you" below is the driver of the vehicle with the dashcam, of course we don't know if the driver is Zazaa.

The other car was clearly negligent and moved over without checking the left mirror (even if the bus lane had been in operation, there might have been a cyclist or a pedestrian attempting to cross the road). Having said that, once the car started moving I would have expected you to use the horn and due to the lack of audio we don't know if this was done. If you had the opportunity to see the car moving towards you (the video suggests you did), but didn't use the horn, the other driver's insurance can raise the issue of contributory negligence. But still, most of the fault IMO rests on the other driver.


Agreed. But in addition to the horn, I'd have expected the driver to start slowing down in anticipation of the other driver ignoring or not hearing the warning.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:24
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QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:23) *
The incident took place at 12.09 am, the sounding of the horn at that time would have been illegal anyway.

Really?


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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:32
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I am going to disagree. It annoys me that people don't read the signs and use the BL when it is not in operation, but if you are going to do so thus undertaking a row of traffic you have to be extra vigilant. The signal that the car wanted to pull over was in plenty of time and you should have seen it with enough time to avoid a collision, and you have a responsibility to do so if possible. I can see a 70/30 or 60/40 claim


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Zazaa
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:32
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Ignore the time stamp-for some obscure reason the watermark is incorrect. Incident occurred at approx 1830 on a Sunday.

Horn was used, and the road is 30mph I believe.

Video recording of the driver on the right obtained admitting fault, and that they would stop to exchange details. She drove and then didnt' stop, but upon following her for 5 mins, she drove up to her car park, and again says she'll give her details, states that her daughter was vomiting and sick so she didn't see. when flash used to record her, she tries snatchiing the phone out of the hands.

And she again states she'll give her details, whilst speaking arabic over the phone. Goes inside to put her kids away, and never returns.

Damage is to the car on the left. Driver door, passenger door and parts of the bumper scratched and with the other car's paint.
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cp8759
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:42
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I was going to suggest 80/20 but if the horn was used I'm not sure it's going to be worth the other company's time to fight the claim, though I except they'll make an offer without admission of liability, as is normally the case.

@Zazaa, it's a criminal offence for the other driver to refuse to give insurance details, why didn't you just call 999? The arrival of a police officer often helps "focus the mind" (though of course there's no guarantee there would have been a unit available nearby, but don't ask, don't get).

Anyway, it's a bit late for all that that now but you can get insurance details from askmid for something like £4 (which you can add to the cost of the claim). If you have a video where she accepts fault it seems like an open and shut case. No injuries I take it?


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666
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:42
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QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:23) *
The incident took place at 12.09 am, the sounding of the horn at that time would have been illegal anyway.


According to the HC (rule 112) it is illegal "except when another road user poses a danger."
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Zazaa
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:44
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Of the opinion that both cars are at fault. True that car on the right is changing lanes and changes after stopping a little, but car on the left could/should have slowed down when seeing the signal. When changing lanes, whose right of way is it? Or does right of way not matter in "slow" lane?

This post has been edited by Zazaa: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:50
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Mat_Shamus
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:44
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QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:23) *
The only mitigating factor (as far as the car in the right lane would have been that you were overtaking on the inside, but then he himself should not have been in the outside lane to start with.


Isn't it perfectly acceptable to pass traffic on the inside like that though if the traffic is stationary or queuing in the right lane such as the clip?


QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:32) *
The signal that the car wanted to pull over was in plenty of time and you should have seen it with enough time to avoid a collision, and you have a responsibility to do so if possible. I can see a 70/30 or 60/40 claim


Just because you are indicating it doesn't mean you can drive into the path of stationary traffic. Indicating is an intention to change your position but you shouldn't perform the maneuver unless it is safe to do so. In this instance it wasn't


QUOTE (Zazaa @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:32) *
And she again states she'll give her details, whilst speaking arabic over the phone. Goes inside to put her kids away, and never returns.


It may be worth reporting to the police as leaving the scene of an accident whilst not providing details as it is an offence to do so (unless she reported to the police within 24 hours, but that doesn't sound likely)
If you go straight via the insurance route the person who is insured on the vehicle may claim it was not them driving and IIRC the third party insurance company will not pay out if it is not the person they are covering which was driving.


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cp8759
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:44
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:32) *
I am going to disagree. It annoys me that people don't read the signs and use the BL when it is not in operation, but if you are going to do so thus undertaking a row of traffic you have to be extra vigilant. The signal that the car wanted to pull over was in plenty of time and you should have seen it with enough time to avoid a collision, and you have a responsibility to do so if possible. I can see a 70/30 or 60/40 claim

Signalling doesn't give priority, while I agree it is prudent to slow down there is no requirement on the driver in the left hand lane to give way. I've passed plenty of cars in such circumstances though with a hand on the horn.


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Zazaa
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:46
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:42) *
I was going to suggest 80/20 but if the horn was used I'm not sure it's going to be worth the other company's time to fight the claim, though I except they'll make an offer without admission of liability, as is normally the case.

@Zazaa, it's a criminal offence for the other driver to refuse to give insurance details, why didn't you just call 999? The arrival of a police officer often helps "focus the mind" (though of course there's no guarantee there would have been a unit available nearby, but don't ask, don't get).

Anyway, it's a bit late for all that that now but you can get insurance details from askmid for something like £4 (which you can add to the cost of the claim). If you have a video where she accepts fault it seems like an open and shut case. No injuries I take it?



Police was called, told the situation and they gave a reference and advised going into a station/go online to do an RTC. When going to the police station, advised to do the RTC online.
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666
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:48
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:42) *
@Zazaa, it's a criminal offence for the other driver to refuse to give insurance details,


It isn't, unless someone has been injured. However, it's certainly an offence not to give name and address, and that of the car's owner if different.
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Zazaa
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:49
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QUOTE (Zazaa @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:44) *
Of the opinion that both cars are at fault. True that car on the right is changing lanes and changes after stopping a little, but car on the left could/should have slowed down when seeing the signal. When changing lanes, whose right of way is it? Or does right of way not matter in "slow."

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cp8759
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:50
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QUOTE (Mat_Shamus @ Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:44) *
It may be worth reporting to the police as leaving the scene of an accident whilst not providing details as it is an offence to do so (unless she reported to the police within 24 hours, but that doesn't sound likely)
If you go straight via the insurance route the person who is insured on the vehicle may claim it was not them driving and IIRC the third party insurance company will not pay out if it is not the person they are covering which was driving.

Failing to provide details of insurance to any person who has reasonable grounds for asking for such details is an offence, that is a separate and different offence from failing to report an accident.

Even if the insurance company isn't contractually liable, they are still liable under the Road Traffic Act to pay the damages.

Of course, if the insurance wasn't valid, the insurance company will have to pay out and then sue the policyholder for the money (that's why there's always a clause in your insurance contract that says something like "if by law we have to pay any sum which we would not otherwise be liable to pay under the terms of this insurance contract, you must repay that money to us on demand"). There was a case some time ago where this sort of scenario came about, the insurance company wanted their money back and the guy ended up having to sell his house. But that's the insurance company's problem, they will have to pay Zazaa upfront and what happens later is up to them.


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stamfordman
post Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 13:51
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Not driving prudently doesn't mean being at fault. While I (and no doubt PMB) would almost certainly have anticipated this and made sure the other driver was awake before proceeding, that driver did turn into a live lane without looking.
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