No entry sign, Urgent as one day to go |
No entry sign, Urgent as one day to go |
Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:34
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
I was away so got the letter late and it seems I have to sort today, I will probably pay today unless anyone can see of a reason why this letter is wrong. Looks like I made a mistake but the charges seem rather excessive , the amount of one way systems in London is rediculous.
Anyway if anyone can help would be greatly appreciated, if not I guess im bang to rights. Ive checked the road again, I think its recently made no entry, is there a way of contacting the council to find out? It has please see below, the second one down is a pdf explaining the change. https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=oper...1.0.Wf57YbVJtRI Obviously satnav is no excuse but I have used that road regularly , that day was heavy weather so visibility wasnt great , still no excuse. But seems a harsh price. Can I possibly send a reply now and they keep the fee at£65 until we go further. |
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:34
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:36
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
It's been operational as an experimental order since last July:
https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/downloads/file/...sts_-_tmoe00317 |
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:39
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#3
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
I was away so got the letter late and it seems I have to sort today, I will probably pay today unless anyone can see of a reason why this letter is wrong.r. Where did you get the idea that you have to pay today? The reduced rate is available for 14 days from "the date of this notice", which was 28 March. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:43
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
We need a photo of the signs, I can't see any on google street view so they must be fairly new.
It's been operational as an experimental order since last July: https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/downloads/file/...sts_-_tmoe00317 There's a flaw in the order, but sadly not serious enough to invalidate it. I was away so got the letter late and it seems I have to sort today, I will probably pay today unless anyone can see of a reason why this letter is wrong.r. Where did you get the idea that you have to pay today? The reduced rate is available for 14 days from "the date of this notice", which was 28 March. +1, you have another week to either challenge or pay at the reduced rate. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:11
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Thanks eveyone for response on Easter Monday, yes it seems I was using the wrong date im not at home so someone sent it to me via text and used 17th date, I got mixed up.
I will get photo this week, but I do remember the day and was heavy weather, I know, no excuse but I may just put in a letter this and also its recent changes, I think the sings are quite clear though. Still seems a steep fine. |
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:20
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 15:11
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 20 May 2004 Member No.: 1,223 |
Still seems a steep fine. You do know you can pay the 50% discount of £65? Can I possibly send a reply now and they keep the fee at£65 until we go further. They know, they mentioned it in an earlier post |
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 17:25
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
There is a flaw re the issue date for the CC on the PCN. This has won on its own in the past
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 17:46
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
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Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 19:53
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
It says if the PCN is not paid within the 28 day period (starting on date of notice) then in increased charge may be payable (this bit is correct) but they then go on to say they may then issue a charge certificate. (this is the error)The regulations allow that a CC may be served 28 days beginning with date of service. This would be some two days later, so denying you two days that the law allows to consider your options
2170469036 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 16:25
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
It says if the PCN is not paid within the 28 day period (starting on date of notice) then in increased charge may be payable (this bit is correct) but they then go on to say they may then issue a charge certificate. (this is the error)The regulations allow that a CC may be served 28 days beginning with date of service. This would be some two days later, so denying you two days that the law allows to consider your options 2170469036 So how do you think I should write the letter do I just mention this and/or mention poor weather conditions and new road change? |
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Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 16:45
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
I took some pics today, I was coming from the East (looking at the picture from the right side of it) when driving so the no entry sign is actaully obscured from vision. But the other one is clear I guess.
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Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 23:20
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
While the positioning of the no entry signs is not optimal, I suspect an adjudicator would find them to be substantially complaint (considering the additional road markings and the "no left turn" and "no right turn" signs on the main road), I would appeal on the basis outlined by PASTMYBEST.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 07:48
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Is this ok?
This PCN is not legal as it says in the letter "you may issue a charge certificate" the normal regulations allow that a CC be served 28 days begining with the date of service, this would mean its going to be two days later which denys me two more days to consider what to do. Therefore the contravention did not occur. |
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Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 10:50
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Is this ok? This PCN is not legal as it says in the letter "you may issue a charge certificate" the normal regulations allow that a CC be served 28 days begining with the date of service, this would mean its going to be two days later which denys me two more days to consider what to do. Therefore the contravention did not occur. Not really, as the contravention plainly did occur. Instead you need to argue that the amount demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances. Also confrontational language such as the PCN is not legal is unlikely to help. Try something like this: The PCN states "If the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge of £195 may be payable. We may then send you a Charge Certificate seeking payment of this increased amount." This is misleading as it implies you may serve a Charge Certificate once the 28 day period beginning with the date of the PCN has elapsed. This is misleading because the regulations only allow you to send a Charge Certificate after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the PCN is served, which is two working days after the date of the PCN. The wording on the PCN is thus incorrect as it does not convey the meaning required out in the regulations, and it effectively deprives the recipient of at least two days to either make representations or pay the £130 charge. This means that, even if the contravention did occur, the amount now demanded exceeds the amount payable in the circumstances of the case. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 15:24
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Ok thank you, I will give it a go.
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:33
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Here is their reply
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:50
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#18
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
The Council response relies on the PCN being substantially compliant when read as a whole which is bullsh*t if the error gives rise to prejudice or the potential for prejudice.
The appeal to the adjudicators must feature the Al's Bar & Restaurant case (2020106430) wherein mistakes of this nature render the PCN a nullity. Mick |
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 21:19
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
When read as a whole. They still tell you they may issue a CC at least 2 days before they can
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 25 May 2018 - 07:18
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Ok thanks, im confused with the letter though, isnt there a normal order they should come in, e.g recieve a pcn, then a notice to owner then an appeal letter, is this correct or am I wrong? Aslo my first letter was sent to the address where my car is registered, long story but I moved recently and had all my post go to my parents for eayness. The seconf letter came to my new address, the only thing I can think is I put my address in appeal but I highly doubt that, where the incident occured is in the same borough I now live which is different to my parents. Just seems a bit odd to me.
The Council response relies on the PCN being substantially compliant when read as a whole which is bullsh*t if the error gives rise to prejudice or the potential for prejudice. The appeal to the adjudicators must feature the Al's Bar & Restaurant case (2020106430) wherein mistakes of this nature render the PCN a nullity. Mick Do you have a direct link, I put in the code and got this one discussing a student appeal site which no longer works. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=101244 Regards |
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