PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

No entry sign, Urgent as one day to go
dan79
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:34
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



I was away so got the letter late and it seems I have to sort today, I will probably pay today unless anyone can see of a reason why this letter is wrong. Looks like I made a mistake but the charges seem rather excessive , the amount of one way systems in London is rediculous.

Anyway if anyone can help would be greatly appreciated, if not I guess im bang to rights.






Ive checked the road again, I think its recently made no entry, is there a way of contacting the council to find out?

It has please see below, the second one down is a pdf explaining the change.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=oper...1.0.Wf57YbVJtRI

Obviously satnav is no excuse but I have used that road regularly , that day was heavy weather so visibility wasnt great , still no excuse. But seems a harsh price. Can I possibly send a reply now and they keep the fee at£65 until we go further.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:34
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
stamfordman
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:36
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



It's been operational as an experimental order since last July:


https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/downloads/file/...sts_-_tmoe00317
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:39
Post #3


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (dan79 @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:34) *
I was away so got the letter late and it seems I have to sort today, I will probably pay today unless anyone can see of a reason why this letter is wrong.r.

Where did you get the idea that you have to pay today? The reduced rate is available for 14 days from "the date of this notice", which was 28 March.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 12:43
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



We need a photo of the signs, I can't see any on google street view so they must be fairly new.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:36) *
It's been operational as an experimental order since last July:


https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/downloads/file/...sts_-_tmoe00317

There's a flaw in the order, but sadly not serious enough to invalidate it.

QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:39) *
QUOTE (dan79 @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:34) *
I was away so got the letter late and it seems I have to sort today, I will probably pay today unless anyone can see of a reason why this letter is wrong.r.

Where did you get the idea that you have to pay today? The reduced rate is available for 14 days from "the date of this notice", which was 28 March.

+1, you have another week to either challenge or pay at the reduced rate.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:11
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



Thanks eveyone for response on Easter Monday, yes it seems I was using the wrong date im not at home so someone sent it to me via text and used 17th date, I got mixed up.

I will get photo this week, but I do remember the day and was heavy weather, I know, no excuse but I may just put in a letter this and also its recent changes, I think the sings are quite clear though. Still seems a steep fine.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:20
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



QUOTE (dan79 @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 14:11) *
Still seems a steep fine.



You do know you can pay the 50% discount of £65?


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
snowy1998
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 15:11
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 309
Joined: 20 May 2004
Member No.: 1,223



QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 14:20) *
QUOTE (dan79 @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 14:11) *
Still seems a steep fine.


You do know you can pay the 50% discount of £65?



QUOTE (dan79 @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 13:34) *
Can I possibly send a reply now and they keep the fee at£65 until we go further.


They know, they mentioned it in an earlier post
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 17:25
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



There is a flaw re the issue date for the CC on the PCN. This has won on its own in the past


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 17:46
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 18:25) *
There is a flaw re the issue date for the CC on the PCN. This has won on its own in the past



What is the flaw is it the wrong date or sent on wrong date?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 19:53
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



It says if the PCN is not paid within the 28 day period (starting on date of notice) then in increased charge may be payable (this bit is correct) but they then go on to say they may then issue a charge certificate. (this is the error)The regulations allow that a CC may be served 28 days beginning with date of service. This would be some two days later, so denying you two days that the law allows to consider your options

2170469036


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 16:25
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 2 Apr 2018 - 19:53) *
It says if the PCN is not paid within the 28 day period (starting on date of notice) then in increased charge may be payable (this bit is correct) but they then go on to say they may then issue a charge certificate. (this is the error)The regulations allow that a CC may be served 28 days beginning with date of service. This would be some two days later, so denying you two days that the law allows to consider your options

2170469036


So how do you think I should write the letter do I just mention this and/or mention poor weather conditions and new road change?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 16:45
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



I took some pics today, I was coming from the East (looking at the picture from the right side of it) when driving so the no entry sign is actaully obscured from vision. But the other one is clear I guess.













Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 23:20
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



While the positioning of the no entry signs is not optimal, I suspect an adjudicator would find them to be substantially complaint (considering the additional road markings and the "no left turn" and "no right turn" signs on the main road), I would appeal on the basis outlined by PASTMYBEST.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 07:48
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



Is this ok?


This PCN is not legal as it says in the letter "you may issue a charge certificate" the normal regulations allow that a CC be served 28 days begining with the date of service, this would mean its going to be two days later which denys me two more days to consider what to do. Therefore the contravention did not occur.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 10:50
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (dan79 @ Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 08:48) *
Is this ok?


This PCN is not legal as it says in the letter "you may issue a charge certificate" the normal regulations allow that a CC be served 28 days begining with the date of service, this would mean its going to be two days later which denys me two more days to consider what to do. Therefore the contravention did not occur.

Not really, as the contravention plainly did occur. Instead you need to argue that the amount demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances. Also confrontational language such as the PCN is not legal is unlikely to help. Try something like this:

The PCN states "If the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge of £195 may be payable. We may then send you a Charge Certificate seeking payment of this increased amount." This is misleading as it implies you may serve a Charge Certificate once the 28 day period beginning with the date of the PCN has elapsed. This is misleading because the regulations only allow you to send a Charge Certificate after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the PCN is served, which is two working days after the date of the PCN. The wording on the PCN is thus incorrect as it does not convey the meaning required out in the regulations, and it effectively deprives the recipient of at least two days to either make representations or pay the £130 charge. This means that, even if the contravention did occur, the amount now demanded exceeds the amount payable in the circumstances of the case.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 15:24
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



Ok thank you, I will give it a go.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:33
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



Here is their reply














Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:50
Post #18


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



The Council response relies on the PCN being substantially compliant when read as a whole which is bullsh*t if the error gives rise to prejudice or the potential for prejudice.

The appeal to the adjudicators must feature the Al's Bar & Restaurant case (2020106430) wherein mistakes of this nature render the PCN a nullity.

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 21:19
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



When read as a whole. They still tell you they may issue a CC at least 2 days before they can


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dan79
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 07:18
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 725
Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,066



Ok thanks, im confused with the letter though, isnt there a normal order they should come in, e.g recieve a pcn, then a notice to owner then an appeal letter, is this correct or am I wrong? Aslo my first letter was sent to the address where my car is registered, long story but I moved recently and had all my post go to my parents for eayness. The seconf letter came to my new address, the only thing I can think is I put my address in appeal but I highly doubt that, where the incident occured is in the same borough I now live which is different to my parents. Just seems a bit odd to me.

QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:50) *
The Council response relies on the PCN being substantially compliant when read as a whole which is bullsh*t if the error gives rise to prejudice or the potential for prejudice.

The appeal to the adjudicators must feature the Al's Bar & Restaurant case (2020106430) wherein mistakes of this nature render the PCN a nullity.

Mick


Do you have a direct link, I put in the code and got this one discussing a student appeal site which no longer works.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=101244


Regards
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 08:22
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here