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Notice of Enforcement from Jacobs - Manchester Bus Lane
Astramaxvan
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23
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Hi Everyone,

After some urgent help please - my Mum got this through the post yesterday and is having a bit of a panic about it as it says payment needed by tomorrow - she's already tried to call them and pay online, but no answer on their phones and their online payment doesn't work. Shet then called me to ask what to do (I'm a couple of hundred miles away so doing this over the phone to her!):

https://kbtaoq.am.files.1drv.com/y4mCkFFQxj...p;cropmode=none

She hasn't had anything through at all about this before - no PCN, no warrant of control, nothing about enforcement action - and she's not the sort of person to ignore mail...

Name, address and Car reg are correct - she's just checked the V5 and it's got the correct address on (she's been at the current address 4 years and did the V5 change just after she moved in, v5 date shows 11/16)

I've checked out the ticket number on the Manchester Council website and it looks genuine.

She's have just paid the £30 if she'd got gthe PCN - can we get this recovery cancelled and go back to the original cost?

From this topic http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=101106 I've asked her to call the TEC tomorrow morning and ask the following:

Establish the date that the Order for Recovery was authorised by the TEC?
The date of the warrant?
Against what address, on the warrant? (IE current or your previous address(es)?)
Whether or not the warrant has ever been reissued against your current address? And when?
The PCN number if you don't have it?
And ask them to email the appropriate forms for the PCN. Witness Statement for most parking or Statutory Declaration for moving traffic, with the applicable Out Of Time application. EG a bus lane will be require Statutory Declaration and Out Of Time


There is a form on the Manchester website to appeal the PCN - if we fill this out will it reset the Jacobs stuff, or will we need to submit the PE2/PE3 forms to do that?

I've asked he to do nothing else until she's spoken to the TEC...

Thanks :-)
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post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23
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Neil B
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 13:29
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Well you seem to have done some good research and have the gist of what to do.
i.e. no, don't make representations; PE2/3 are the only way to go and PE2 must be focused and appropriate.
Enforcement action is suspended once these are filed, pending outcome.

BUT
First question is why are we only hearing at the last minute?

Second question -
QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23) *
Name, address and Car reg are correct - she's just checked the V5 and it's got the correct address on (she's been at the current address 4 years and did the V5 change just after she moved in, v5 date shows 11/16)

Really? Has she really checked it? Because that's your major hurdle, trying to account for three separate statutory notices going missing
in the post: It's just not likely.
So, every detail of that address on V5 ?

----
The other problem I have with these is the current position, i.e. £173.
The next fee to be added by the bailiff is £235 and that seems imminent.
And worse, since the ticking of bailiff clocks isn't covered in legislation it's a grey area. Meaning that should her PE2
application be refused and the suspension of enforcement lifted then bailiffs tend to quickly progress as soon as they know.

Without there being any apparent reason (so far) that three notices have gone astray I don't see much choice other
than her current decision to pay the £173.

You've done the right thing in advising her to call TEC. Do tell her to be patient for call pick up; there are a lot of people
in the same boat.
What TEC have on record re the address might, as an outside chance, reveal a cock-up by Manchester or DVLA. Then we'd
have something to work with.

Let us know any progress/updates.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 14:49
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Thanks for the reply - I've not seen the v5, but mum is certain it's the right address - I agree it's unlikely 3 different letters would all go missing!

Will see what the tec have to say in the morning :-)
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peterguk
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 14:52
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 14:49) *
I've not seen the v5


You need to get it in your hands and look yourself. No more guessing or assuming.


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Neil B
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 18:57
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An issue I'm concerned about in this case -
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 13:29) *
First question is why are we only hearing at the last minute?

I did find the answer just after replying >
QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23) *
got this through the post yesterday

Has she still got the envelope? Postmark?
Was it actually posted or hand delivered?

QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23) *
it says payment needed by tomorrow

Hmm. Law says seven clear days (which excludes Sundays).
She obviously hasn't had that so I'm miffed.
We are seeing other bailiffs routinely work to 14 days and I've been wondering for a while if there's been
a change to 14 but I've not found any amendments.



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 09:23
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Looks like it was posted, but can't see the postmark date:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhtzOW2zINRhgedr_0NbO5AJN0hlEg

She's calling the Tec now...
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peterguk
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 09:53
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 09:23) *
Looks like it was posted, but can't see the postmark date:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhtzOW2zINRhgedr_0NbO5AJN0hlEg

She's calling the Tec now...


And the V5C? Have you seen it yet?


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Neil B
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 11:52
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Any update?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 12:47
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Hi, sorry, not much of an update - my mum spoke to the TEC, said they were very helpful and have sent through the pe2 and pe3 forms to fill out and have put the case on gold pending receiving the forms...

They've also confirmed they've got the correct address, and the v5 is definitely correct.


Sorry for the slow reply - have to pop out of work and check this on my phone, which I can't use in work!
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peterguk
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 13:25
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 12:47) *
They've also confirmed they've got the correct address, and the v5 is definitely correct.



Very odd that all previous correspondence was lost in the post.


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Neil B
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 13:25
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 12:47) *
Hi, sorry, not much of an update - my mum spoke to the TEC, said they were very helpful and have sent through the pe2 and pe3 forms to fill out and have put the case on gold pending receiving the forms...

They've also confirmed they've got the correct address, and the v5 is definitely correct.

I am not aware that TEC have the power to put a case on hold once the creditor holds a warrant? Recheck that.

I refer you to my concerns in my original response, post #2.
These are a tough call.
Is there any chance Mum has ignored previous notices?
--
-


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:53
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It is odd that 3 separate notices haven't got through - my Mum definitely isn't the sort to ignore notices like this - she's more the sort to panic when she gets anything through, so I can't see her ignoring anything...

I should have mentioned, regarding the V5, she got a speeding ticket (SP30) last year (2017, from Dorset Police) and that correspondence came through without delay (she did a Speed Awareness course), which does make me think the DVLA records are accurate.

But she's sent me a picture of the V5, and I'll compare them in detail this evening.

My Mum also spoke to Jacobs, who said they'll be sending the bailiffs round on the 28th unless they get the hold notice from the court/Manchester cc, so she's going to fill out the PE2/3 forms this evening. Jacobs also said that the reason she wasn't able to make the online payment was that there was a problem with her credit card - she checked with her card issuer and there's no issue with the card, and it's a problem Jacobs end!

The only real defence she has is that she didn't get any of the forms in the post from what I can see - best base being She'd get the fine reset to the original £60?

Thanks Again!

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Neil B
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 15:52
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:53) *
best base being She'd get the fine reset to the original £60?

A new PCN, allowing discount of £30.

But entirely reliant on Manc not opposing her PE2 (which needs to be perfect btw)

Possible there was a glitch at Council end. Worth asking them to check the case history to see if notices were
actually sent and where.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 17:20
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Thanks,

Do you mean asking the Council or the TEC to check the case history?

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Neil B
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 17:43
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 17:20) *
Thanks,

Do you mean asking the Council or the TEC to check the case history?

Only the Council have it.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 18:08
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Thanks, I'll ask my Mum to check with them tomorrow - I'll also see if they'll respond to an email :-)

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Astramaxvan
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:06
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Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the slow reply, been a hectic day!

My Mum spoke to Jacobs again, who scared her into paying the £173, after which they then told her they'd sent all the previous letters to her old address (they confirmed the address, not just that it wasn't her current address)!

I asked my mum to dig out the paperwork from her speeding fine - dated 7th December 2017 (7 weeks before the bus lane incident) and that was addressed to her new address - to my mind proving that the V5/DVLA records were definitely up to date before Manchester Council sent out the original PCN (to the wrong address).

So can we still submit the PE2/3 and go about trying to get it reset, and is there any chance of getting the money back off Jacobs?

Thanks again everyone :-)
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Neil B
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:21
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Tomorrow if I can.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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peterguk
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:22
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:06) *
My Mum spoke to Jacobs again,


Thought she was meant to be calling the council??

That's the second time she's paid a debt that has nothing to do with her.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 08:53


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Astramaxvan
post Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 06:13
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:22) *
QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:06) *
My Mum spoke to Jacobs again,


Thought she was meant to be calling the council??

She was, but she's been panicking about the whole bailiffs thing and called them to see if they'd had the notice to put it on hold.

I had said to her she needed to get the pe2/3 forms in to do that, but she's just been stressing about it so much I think she's worried herself into a bit of a state!
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