Final reminder NIP for speeding - didn't get original in the post, Split from hijacked thread Options

[Will2222]

Rather than start another thread I thought I'd ask here instead. Hope this is okay.

Today 23/03/18 I received an NIP final reminder dated 14/03/18 for an offence on 11/02/18 but I didn't get anything in the post before now as in the first one or original notice. I'm guessing that there was or should have been a first or other notice? I have never been caught for speeding before and have a clean licence.

The car is a motability car but is registered to me as I found out one day when I came back to the car and there was a policeman standing by the car and he was being told over the radio my name and address. The reason why was because there was people acting dodgy around it and the police were called by the shopping centre.

What should I do now? I'd be very grateful for help. The NIP is 3 points and £100 fine, I was doing 43mph in a 30 but for the life of me can't remember being on the road but it is not a road near me or one that I'm familiar with but could have been just following a route I suppose.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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[NeverMind]

Rather than start another thread I thought I'd ask here instead. Hope this is okay.

Nope. Forum rules are One case One thread.


See rule #1 and #2 here - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=107010

This post has been edited by NeverMind: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 16:16

[peterguk]

IIRC, Motability cars are registered driver / c/o Motability, so first NIP goes to Motaobility. so no 14 day defence.

OP - I assume you do not have the V5C in your posession?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 16:27

[Jlc]

Regardless, one presumes the paperwork is asking for the name of the driver at the material time? (A NIP is a notice - the outcome might be a conditional offer of 3 points £100)

This needs addressing as priority. So do you know the driver? (There appears to be some question about the location?)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 16:27

[Will2222]

Sorry for the thread hijack.

No I do not have the V5C but I rang motability and they said that the NIP is not sent to them and is sent to the registered keeper of the car which is me. They said that their cars are registered by name and address of the motability applicant, so me.

As for the location, I don't recall being on the road but I may well have been, I'm not saying that there was no way I was on the road.

[southpaw82]

If that is the case, why do you not have the V5C? It would have been sent to you in the post if you were the registered keeper.

[peterguk]

No I do not have the V5C but I rang motability and they said that the NIP is not sent to them and is sent to the registered keeper of the car which is me. They said that their cars are registered by name and address of the motability applicant, so me.

I suggest you get a photocopy to verify the address. I think the person you spoke to is wrong.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 17:17

[Will2222]

It is too late now to call motability so will have to get it on Monday.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

No I do not have the V5C but I rang motability and they said that the NIP is not sent to them and is sent to the registered keeper of the car which is me. They said that their cars are registered by name and address of the motability applicant, so me.

As for the location, I don't recall being on the road but I may well have been, I'm not saying that there was no way I was on the road.

According to motability that is the way they do it, they hold onto the V5C unless you request it from them for things like if you want to put a private plate on your car.

Just spoken to a friend who also has a motability car and was caught last year for speeding and he got his NIP within a week of getting flashed by the camera. It wasn't a final reminder like I got.

[The Rookie]

If that is the case, why do you not have the V5C? It would have been sent to you in the post if you were the registered keeper.

As I recall Motability cars are a special case, although registered in the keepers name and at their address the V5C are sent to Motability, this has come up on here before.

[NewJudge]

No I do not have the V5C but I rang motability and they said that the NIP is not sent to them and is sent to the registered keeper of the car which is me. They said that their cars are registered by name and address of the motability applicant, so me.

I suggest you get a photocopy to verify the address. I think the person you spoke to is wrong.

Found this on the Motability website:

If you are a Motability Scheme customer, your V5c vehicle registration certificate or 'log book' is held by us so that we can tax your car automatically.
Your registration certificate should show your current name and address.

So it seems the V5C is held by Motability whilst the RK’s details (including address) are shown on it. I imagine Motability must have some sort of special arrangement with the DVLA because every V5C Mrs NJ and I have ever received has arrived in a “window” envelope with the name and address on the V5C itself used to get it to us.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 - 17:42

[Will2222]

Okay, so in preparation for tomorrow what should I do if?

A) My name and hone address is correct on the V5C?

B) The above is not right?

[peterguk]

First job is to name the driver, or else you face a separate charge.

[The Rookie]

I'd confirm with Motability the EXACT name and address (inc postcode) on the V5C.

While in law a late NIP is a defence, its quite hard to convince a naturally sceptical bench of that fact that a properly addressed piece of mail didn't arrive, especially as the defendant has a lot to gain from claiming that fact. The Gidden case had the postie as a witness along with a known issue of late delivery that week and even then the magistrates didn't believe it was late.

[NewJudge]

The Gidden case had the postie as a witness along with a known issue of late delivery that week and even then the magistrates didn't believe it was late.

I think in the Gidden case it was accepted that the NIP was received late. The issue was whether that was acceptable under the prevailing circumstances (a postal strike). The Magistrates ruled that it was but the higher court overturned that ruling.

[Jlc]

There's a handy link on the posts from 'Peterguk' - on this thread too...

[peterguk]

The Magistrates ruled that it was but the higher court overturned that ruling.

Not forgetting the CPS did finally accept deivery was late, and did not oppose the HC appeal.

I beleive the point TR ws making, was that it is a far from easy task convincing Magistrates a random, critical item of post was lost.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 08:54

[The Rookie]

The Gidden case had the postie as a witness along with a known issue of late delivery that week and even then the magistrates didn't believe it was late.

I think in the Gidden case it was accepted that the NIP was received late. The issue was whether that was acceptable under the prevailing circumstances (a postal strike). The Magistrates ruled that it was but the higher court overturned that ruling.

Not quite, the magistrates didn't believe it was late (they thought Peter knew too much about the law and was making the facts fit a defence - to paraphrase slightly), the first appeal accepted it was late (as noted in the final appeal judgement) but then made the error in law in saying it didn't matter, that was crucial as if the first two rulings had been the other way round there could have been no successful appeal to the high court.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 09:24

[Will2222]

Got back to motability this morning and they are going to post the C5V form to me but they were able to tell me what was exactly was on it and it both my name and address spot on.

Now should I just call the number on the NIP and accept the speeding fine and pay the £100 Or is there a cause to question it?

This post has been edited by Will2222: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 10:17

[The Rookie]

While in law a late NIP is a defence, its quite hard to convince a naturally sceptical bench of that fact that a properly addressed piece of mail didn't arrive, especially as the defendant has a lot to gain from claiming that fact. The Gidden case had the postie as a witness along with a known issue of late delivery that week and even then the magistrates didn't believe it was late.

This still stands, you of course have a case, BUT
1/ The Police will not just meekly accept it
2/ You will have to forego the easier options and be prepared to defend it in court
3/ Its not easy to convince a court you have a genuine defence.

Accepting what you say as true (noting you would have to convince the court that no notice was ever delivered, not just that you personally don't recall seeing it) you have an absolute defence, BUT your chances of success in court are very low I'm afraid, the pragmatic approach is to take the course of least resistance. You have to do this by post, you cannot do it by phone!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 10:33

[Jlc]

Now should I just call the number on the NIP and accept the speeding fine and pay the £100 Or is there a cause to question it?

Wait and see what the V5 says first.

Unless this is Avon & Somerset then you have to name the driver before paying the fine.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 10:39