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Charge Back or Court claim?, Off Topic I know but I think it worth asking you well informed guys
Northern
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:49
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Hi.
I purchased a bike through Amazon, (third party seller)
Several days later the seller messaged the bike was dispatched and gave a Tracking number but when I tracked it on line, it stated delivery made the previous day.
I informed seller of this and he said not to worry as he was late with the tracking info.
I then pointed out to him the problem is tracking says delivered but I don't have my bike.
He said he would speak to courier and get back to me.
Several days later still no bike or message from seller.
I raise a claim with Amazon and the seller sends copy of delivery note with a dubious looking signature on it.
I point out that the signature doesn't belong to anyone at my address and also I am not able to make out what the signature actually says, It's just a squiggle.
Also at time of alleged delivery I was at home and no delivery was received.
Seller responded by saying he has provided proof of delivery and I should take it up with the courier.
I asked Amazon to step in and after a few days they decided to rule in sellers favor.
They also advised to take it up with the courier.
I tried the courier route but was told "only the sender can start in investigation into a lost delivery." and was directed back to the seller.
Asked the seller to start an investigation with courier which they agreed to do, however the seller has stopped answering my messages.
I am considering a charge back on my card payment but am concerned what would happen if the seller takes court action.
I haven't any experience of this sort of thing and am wondering how this works.
For instance if the seller went to court, I would be willing to defend this however, I know the seller is up north and as I'm down south, would that mean me travelling up north for a court hearing or him travelling down south?



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post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:49
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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:00
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Did you pay on credit or debit card?
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Northern
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:05
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Credit card.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:22
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Funnily enough I had a very simliar problem not long ago, fortunately Royal Mail were w lot more understanding and willing to talk and I did get my money back (though the seller was useless).


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Jlc
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:26
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QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:05) *
Credit card.

Via PayPal or the like?

QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:49) *
...would that mean me travelling up north for a court hearing or him travelling down south?

The defendant has the choice of court to use.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:37
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I would say fairly obviously try S75 then chargeback first. Whether they count Amazon as an intermediary seems to depend on which way the wind is blowing. But as it's free and quick worth a shot.

If that fails a letter before action sent recorded post may elicit a response.

Then do small claims as a last resort as you will need to put your hand in your pocket again.

Between then it would be worth getting someone with access to credit reference databases to make sure this person actually exists. You could also try reporting it as fraud if the seller has given a tracking number which date wise could not be correct. They will likelysay it is a civil matter regardless but worth 15p for the phonecall.

Finally escalate it as far as possible through Amazon - loyal customer, used to trust, etc. This is a lot of money to you but it is nothing to Amazon and if you make enough of a fuss they may pay just to get you off their backs.
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Northern
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 20:08
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Jlc. Credit card paid to Amazon, no paypal.

From what I have read a section 75 can't be used as Amazon is classed as a third party so it's unlikely to be allowed.
Looks like first option is try a charge back and see if Credit card company are willing.

Rookie, if seller was useless what happened to get your money back?

This post has been edited by Northern: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 20:13


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Fredd
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 21:13
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QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 21:08) *
From what I have read a section 75 can't be used as Amazon is classed as a third party so it's unlikely to be allowed.

What does Amazon's status have to do with it? The point of s75 is that it makes the credit card company jointly and severably liable.


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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 21:30
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 22:13) *
QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 21:08) *
From what I have read a section 75 can't be used as Amazon is classed as a third party so it's unlikely to be allowed.

What does Amazon's status have to do with it? The point of s75 is that it makes the credit card company jointly and severably liable.

Because the original legislation required you to have a direct relationship with any party you are claiming a refund from, intended for instance to cover a transaction with a travel agent but not a resort.

However now there are all sorts of third party intermediaries from Paypal and Amazon through to Sagepay and Worldpay which technically would be encompassed by the legislation, even though evidently it was not the original intention. There has been precious little clarification quite probably because it very much suits Amazon, Paypal and the credit card companies to have that loophole on file.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 06:33
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Amazon aren’t a third party, you pay them and they pay the order satisfier who sends the goods, in effect the ‘vendor’ is Amazons agent, that’s how it appears to me at least. If you paid the ‘vendor’ direct then they would be a third party.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 06:34


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Fredd
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 07:06
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After googling this it seems there is indeed uncertainty at least as to whether Amazon Marketplace purchases are covered. I suspect that such uncertainty is a result of credit card companies' never-ending efforts to rid themselves of this liability as much as anything.


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Jlc
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 07:51
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Roughly how much was the purchase?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Northern
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 16:24
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£1200


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http40My Case! My other Case! Don't let the bastards grind you down!Hi.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118175&hl=
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87923&hl=
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=110125&hl=
My score card: Me 3-0 Camera partnerships.
Me 4-0 Local Authorities.
Me 8-0 Private parking Companies.
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mashman36
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 22:26
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Do a charge back and let the credit card company do the leg work.
They found a company I dealt with was running a racket and defrauding customers!
Basically the equipment never left the shop,they claimed on business insurance as you did a charge back then they sell item again on the next punter!
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The Slithy Tove
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 09:33
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QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:49) *
I raise a claim with Amazon and the seller sends copy of delivery note with a dubious looking signature on it.
I point out that the signature doesn't belong to anyone at my address and also I am not able to make out what the signature actually says, It's just a squiggle.

As a side-point, there is an industry-wide problem here. These days you are expected to sign using your finger on a rather unresponsive, low-resolution touch pad, or a dodgy pen that also doesn't work. As that is not how anyone normally signs their name, inevitably you end up with just a squiggle. I don't see the point of it at all, as anyone can create an illegible squiggle, and it becomes a real issue in cases like this.
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jdh
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 12:05
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 10:33) *
QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:49) *
I raise a claim with Amazon and the seller sends copy of delivery note with a dubious looking signature on it.
I point out that the signature doesn't belong to anyone at my address and also I am not able to make out what the signature actually says, It's just a squiggle.

As a side-point, there is an industry-wide problem here. These days you are expected to sign using your finger on a rather unresponsive, low-resolution touch pad, or a dodgy pen that also doesn't work. As that is not how anyone normally signs their name, inevitably you end up with just a squiggle. I don't see the point of it at all, as anyone can create an illegible squiggle, and it becomes a real issue in cases like this.
One of the drivers who deliver to us often signs for the item himself and posts it through our letterbox, I don't mind as I actually want the item and not the hassle of arranging redelivery but he 'signs' for it using our company name. I often get the successful delivery email a few minutes before he arrives, especially if it's getting close to the timed cut off point.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 13:46
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Indeed, in the case of my missing parcel the name used didn't match to anyone in the house, the signature (actually quite clear) didn't tally and neither of the two people in the house took delivery of a parcel that day, in addition RM admitted that their GPS tracking system that would have confirmed where the handset was when it was signed wasn't working (and hadn't been working for a few weeks).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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