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Private clamping ban, Single thread to discuss Protection of Freedoms Bill
ollielumley
post Fri, 1 Oct 2010 - 00:43
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hardly a great surprise...
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post Fri, 1 Oct 2010 - 00:43
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Earl Purple
post Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 13:00
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Could they not bring in interim legislation?

For example

1. requiring specific written permission from the landowner or lessee for a vehicle to be clamped. Not just any vehicle - the actual vehicle. So no clampers hanging around empty car parks at night when the landowners/lessees are nowhere around. And no clamping people in their own parking spaces.

2. Making it a criminal offence to clamp unlawfully, not just a civil matter. One who clamps unlawfully would have to pay a big fine and compensation to the owner of the vehicle they clamped (not just return their money).

3. Whilst the demand for clampers would go down, there will soon be a higher demand for better parking control measures, eg fitting appropriate gates. They could be training the genuine companies (if there are any) in ways to install these devices so no need for redundancies.
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buttonpusher
post Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 13:29
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Maybe add to that......No ppc's where a gated or keyed entrance car park. Utterly pointless money spinner.
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whitewing
post Wed, 15 Dec 2010 - 23:58
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The simple, easy answer would to be to withdraw, or at least not renew any SIA licenses.
And while they're at it, turn over the license database to HMCE for tax investigation.

They seem to have managed without these parasites for some time in Scotland...

This post has been edited by whitewing: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 - 23:58
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anon45
post Fri, 17 Dec 2010 - 08:24
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QUOTE (whitewing @ Wed, 15 Dec 2010 - 23:58) *
The simple, easy answer would to be to withdraw, or at least not renew any SIA licenses.
And while they're at it, turn over the license database to HMCE for tax investigation.

They seem to have managed without these parasites for some time in Scotland...


I'll be writing to my MP drawing attention to various blatant criminal offences, that these abuses have increased since August, and to full police support for these crimes, demanding that:
i) The clamping ban be expedited and come into force immediately upon receiving Royal Assent, without being subject to a 'commencement order'
ii) All SIA licences to be withdrawn in the meantime
iii) New guidance to be issued to police in the meantime so that they properly consider the possibility of blackmail and/or theft by the clamping firms and do not simply insist "it's a civil matter sir"

I would encourage other Pepipooers to do the same. smile.gif

This post has been edited by anon45: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 08:02
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Korting
post Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 07:28
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The fact is that this government has reneged on EVERY pledge made before the General Election
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anon45
post Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 08:04
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QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 07:28) *
The fact is that this government has reneged on EVERY pledge made before the General Election


Not quite; they promised that taxes would go up, and have certainly delivered on that score wink.gif
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Fredd
post Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 12:08
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QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Sat, 18 Dec 2010 - 07:28) *
The fact is that this government has reneged on EVERY pledge made before the General Election

Without wishing to defend this government's works, that's not entirely accurate. One that immediately comes to mind is that they did scrap ID cards.


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londonliverpoolf...
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 10:57
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Morning all. Just a quick query as I've googled it and am only getting more confused.

My Dad was clamped yesterday for leaving his car behind some shops in Borehamwood. This is private land (not council) and the clamping firm were private. He was charged £130 for his car to be released.

As I understood it I thought clamping on private land was banned on Nov 2010?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_190178
QUOTE
Private wheel clamping to be banned
  • Published: Tuesday, 17 August 2010
Wheel clamping on private land is to be banned in England and Wales. The ban, which will be introduced in the new Freedom Bill in November, will impose tough penalties on anyone who clamps a vehicle or tows it away on private land.


Wheel clamping on private land
Once the ban comes into force it will be illegal to clamp, tow away or in any way immobilise a vehicle on private land.

Anyone who clamps, immobilises or tows away a vehicle on private land without the specific legal authority to do so will face criminal charges or civil penalties.

However, the ban will only apply to private land. It will not affect local authorities’ and the police’s right to clamp vehicles.

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) will continue to clamp or tow away vehicles if the vehicle tax has not been paid.


The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) will also continue to clamp or tow away un-roadworthy vehicles to stop them being used on the road.

At the moment, if someone wants to work clamping vehicles, they must hold a frontline licence from the Security Industry Authority (SIA). This will stop once the ban comes into force.

There are currently 2,150 people who are licensed by the SIA to clamp vehicles.


However reading the latest document (updated Jan 2011) from the Citizens Advice Bureau states that clamping is still allowed as long as you have a SIA licence - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/t_whee...rivate_land.pdf

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks
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Gan
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 11:15
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The Government was very economical with the truth when it announced a clamping ban.

According to correspondence that one member has had with the Home Office, the Bill that provides for clamping to be outlawed won't get through Parliament until the end of this year.

Actually banning the practice won't take place for several years afterward to provide time for the industry to adapt. In other words don't expect it to be stopped for at least three years.

Regarding your father's situation, read some of the other threads to see the procedures for the long haul to reclaim the money - usually from the company that employed them because clampers ignore CCJs.

A couple of questions for starters :

How did he pay - possibility of chargeback if credit card ?
Did the receipt include name, signature, SIA number ? If any are missing it was automatically unlawful .
Which company ?

This post has been edited by Gan: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 11:16
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dave-o
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 11:19
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Start by posting up the receipt and pics of the sign and site layout.


--------------------
Dave-o 3-0 LB Waltham Forest.
Goalscorers: B. Alighting 08', G. Fettered 34', I. Markings 42'


Dave-o 2-0 LB Islington
Goalscorers: V. Locus 82', I. Dates, 87'
Dave-o 1-0 LB Redbridge
Goalscorer: I. Markings 79'


Dave-o 1-0 LB sCamden
Goalscorer: I. Dates, 86'

Dave-o 1-0 LB Hammersmith & Fulham
Goalscorer: T. Signage, 19'
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londonliverpoolf...
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 12:51
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Ha, that's not so easy. My Dad is one of the least computer literate people in the world!

I've asked him if he can get someone to scan the ticket and receipt and email them to me.

He did tell me the company was PCM - Parking Control Management based in Slough, and that the clamper wasn't displaying any ID at all.
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dave-o
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 12:52
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He can take digi photos on close up mode if he prefers. Really need to see those bits first.


--------------------
Dave-o 3-0 LB Waltham Forest.
Goalscorers: B. Alighting 08', G. Fettered 34', I. Markings 42'


Dave-o 2-0 LB Islington
Goalscorers: V. Locus 82', I. Dates, 87'
Dave-o 1-0 LB Redbridge
Goalscorer: I. Markings 79'


Dave-o 1-0 LB sCamden
Goalscorer: I. Dates, 86'

Dave-o 1-0 LB Hammersmith & Fulham
Goalscorer: T. Signage, 19'
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Gan
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 13:17
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This company is very well known and will usually ignore any court documents and CCJs that result.

You need to find out who employed them. First stop is the land registry to identify the land owner. They will usually not employ the clamper themselves but there's a good chance that they will tell you who they employ to manage the site. This is the company that you want.

As already advised, we need to see that receipt.

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Monster 900
post Fri, 21 Jan 2011 - 17:00
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Since the OP seems concerned about the speed (lack of) reform in this area they may also wish to contact their MP to chivvy them along a bit.


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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Links :- 1. NIP Wizard, 2. Speeding - Likely penalty calculator, 3. How to deal with PPC tickets.
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pumps100
post Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 18:57
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I noticed a letter in today's Independent from the British Parking Association 'Clamping ban will be a disaster'. If anyone is interested in replying the address for emails is letters@independent.co.uk - you have to give your name and address with phone number.

Here's the letter - my reply is also copied. But if your reading this and you agree that private wheel clamping should be banned you should take action.
QUOTE
Clamping ban will be a disaster

The Coalition plans to ban clamping and towing away on private land. To the casual observer this sounds attractive, but to many law-abiding motorists, and those householders, tenants and landowners who own car parks, it is a recipe for disaster.

There will be a small percentage of drivers who continue to ignore reasonable requests not to park on private land or who will overstay their welcome. People who run car parks need to ensure that, for the benefit of all, such abuses are dealt with.

In particular, the proposal by Government to ban towing away on private land means that if someone parks, say, in front of a fire exit to a block of flats, an ambulance bay at A&E or even on your front there is nothing you can do about it if the ban becomes law. The suggestion by the Home Office Minister responsible, that the police will have powers to tow away vehicles on private land, is naive.

The problem is that the management of parking on private land is largely unregulated. The British Parking Association has long campaigned for better regulation and has put a proposal to government which would improve the way parking on private land is managed. It would protect the motorists from the excesses of some clamping operators who have for too long fuelled a sensationalist media portrayal of this activity. We call on the Government to reconsider its intention of a total ban and instead regulate this sector properly.

These provisions will be included in The Freedom Bill, to be brought forward in February. The reality is that landowners will be denied the freedom to manage their land, with the state dictating which freedoms they can have and which they can't.

Patrick Troy
Chief Executive, British Parking Association, Haywards Heath


My reply (I am Scottish)

QUOTE
Wheel clamping – Uncertainty of timescale to the ban, is the disaster

Private wheel clamping is unlawful in Scotland and has been for a number of years and based on their experience it has not been a disaster. (Clamping ban will be a disaster- Letters 25th January 2011). I am surprised at the Independent for publishing a letter which suggests that it is not a good idea to ban it – but perhaps the British Parking Association, and their members, have a commercial interest in seeing the practice/racket continue.

The Scottish legal system got it entirely correct in their judgment (Black v Carmichael) in relation to private wheel clamping -- that is, the wheel clamping of a vehicle until it is released on payment of a charge, which is not done under the authority of a statute -- amounts to extortion, and as such is accordingly criminal.

What is a disaster, is the current uncertainty of when the ban in England will come in to place. Like greedy deckchair attendants on the Titanic private wheel clampers are becoming ever more predatory than even before. Pick up any local newspaper, and you'll find many stories about private wheel clampers; additional tow charges being applied for non existent trucks, people being clamped outside their own homes, churches, on the road after being stuck in snow, and so on. They are apparently clamping with impunity.

The public do have recourse through the Courts, but private wheel clampers apparently seem to treat the court system with complete disdain, having little regard for County Court Judgments (CCJ's) held against them – one Essex firm had over 25 unsatisfied CCJ's held against them – the company ceased trading, and the motorists are left chasing ghosts (and their money).

I also have personal experience when a private clamper forced an 8 month pregnant woman in floods of tears, on a dark winters night, to walk half a mile to a cashpoint so that he could get his ill gotten gains. Not even Dick Turpin would have done that.

Yours sincerely,


Come on everybody write a letter to the paper and your MP calling for that ban on private wheel clamping to be implemented without further delay and stop the appeasement to those who who support the extortion continuing.

Regards

Ian

This post has been edited by pumps100: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 19:02


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bama
post Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 20:14
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Troy shoots !

He misses - again


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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sarahg1969
post Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 23:07
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What a t1t. Obviously, things will be a whole lot better if you've got a clamped car in front of of fire exit or in an ambulance bay. rolleyes.gif
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pumps100
post Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 23:14
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QUOTE (sarahg1969 @ Tue, 25 Jan 2011 - 23:07) *
What a t1t. Obviously, things will be a whole lot better if you've got a clamped car in front of of fire exit or in an ambulance bay. rolleyes.gif


Very funny - I missed that biggrin.gif


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NOTICE: The content of this post and of any replies to it may assist in or relate to the formulation of strategy tactics etcetera in a legal action. This post and any replies to it should therefore be assumed to be legally privileged and therefore must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to outside of the PePiPoo forum on which it was originally posted, additionally it must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to by any person or organisation other than a member of PePiPoo appropriately paid up and in full compliance with the PePiPoo terms of use for the forum on which it was originally posted. The PePiPoo terms of use can be found at http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=boardrules. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are reading this material in any form other than an on-line HTML resource directly and legitimately accessed via a URL commencing "http://forums.pepipoo.com" then it has been obtained by improper means and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. If the material you are reading does not include this notice then it has been obtained improperly and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. Your attention is drawn to the Written Standards for the Conduct of Professional Work issued by the Bar Standards Board particularly under heading 7, "Documents". Any advice given is taken at your own risk and no liability is accepted if things go wrong.
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Glitch
post Wed, 26 Jan 2011 - 07:56
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Maybe landowners should get a fence, a gate, a padlock, or some other parking control mechanism to protect their land.

Neanderthals with wheel clamps and tow trucks is not the answer!
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pumps100
post Wed, 26 Jan 2011 - 12:36
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While out with the dog this morning I came up with another thought about a comment I should have incorporated into the letter to the Independent. Mr Troy suggests regulation is the answer to the issue of the private wheel clamping industry. You cannot seriously expect government to regulate what is effectively racketeering. The solution is simple - ban it completely as in Scotland and the problem is resolved.

Please feel free to use any of this for any letters.

BTW was Troy a character in Fireball XL5 - or was it Stingray?

Regards

Ian


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