UKPC ticket for leaving the site, Advice needed |
UKPC ticket for leaving the site, Advice needed |
Tue, 22 May 2018 - 03:38
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 24 Jan 2015 Member No.: 75,350 |
So based on what others have wrote, how does this sound. 1. You allege ‘Driver observed leaving site.’ However, you have provided no evidence to support this claim. 2. No evidence provided that the driver ever left the site, or that even if they did, no action was taken to inform the driver (VCS vs Ibbotson) Should you wish to further correspond with me on this matter, I will require photographic/CCTV evidence with time stamp of the alleged ‘driver-passengers’ having left and returning to the site, as well as the named vehicle entering, staying in and leaving the car park with ‘driver-passengers’ in car within 35 days or I will regard the matter as closed. If you do reject this request and insist upon wasting my time with a further appeal I will claim my expenses from you and my time at the published court rate. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but would include the cost of stamps, envelopes, legal fees and travel expenses. By continuing to pursue me you agree by your conduct to pay these costs if I am successful. Should I send that now? It's been 1 week already of my 2 weeks for the reduced penalty.. This post has been edited by scotty12: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:36 |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 03:38
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 07:32
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
To clarify:
1) How did you get this PCN? Through the post? 2) What was the DATE OF ISSUE? We MUST know this as UKPC are *suspended* from DVLA access. That appeal is terrible, btw. POFA2012 doesnt state a keeper can appeal, 2 is mostly a repeat of 1, youve identified the driver in this post as well - so get editing so the driver isnt visible!, im not sure that signage IS forbidding, 4 is plain wrong, and 5 isnt relevant to what theyre alleging. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:18
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,938 |
Not withstanding that they are suspended, where my parents live, the retail park next door has the exact same signs with the yellow box about leaving site all covered up with gaffa tape about 1 yr ago. Not particularly helpful to the OP, I conceed, although in our case I suspect it was to do with planning and the car park not being able to 'prevent' people visiting Tesco from also making the very short walk to the town and the visiting the vast array of independent estate agents, or charity and coffee shops . Horizon were also busy boys and girls last week, hastily adding supplementary 'GDPR rights' signs underneath their other ones on the trading estate the other side.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:44
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,769 Joined: 7 Nov 2009 Member No.: 33,505 |
"If you leave this site while the car remains in the carpark"
Who is this "you" they are referring to? The driver, the driver's dog or any passengers? Sloppy wording which would not stand up in court. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:50
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,938 |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:11
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 647 Joined: 10 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,458 |
Your appeal would be better with less irrelevant waffle. Nosferatu's point is the most pertinent. If UKPC could not have access to the DVLA to get legitimately get the RK details then they are stuffed because they can't chase the RK and the RK will not identify the driver (assuming you change your OP as requested!). Therefore end of story.
For good measure you have evidence that the driver purchased something on site. That is sufficient proof. They are very unlikely to have any photographic evidence that the driver left the site. Even if they had a witness statement to that effect then there is nothing wrong with the driver using the site to purchase something and then also leaving the site for another purpose. The waffle about signage is not strong and reads like you are not that sure of your main evidence. UKPC will read that as an uncertainty on your part and think that you might cave in to pressure and be stupid enough pay up. This post has been edited by Macapaca: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:13 |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:27
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
Why are we advising to appeal? As per publicenemy's post above, they are banned from getting DVLA data aren't they?
-------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:33
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 647 Joined: 10 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,458 |
I was commenting on your draft appeal wording in your OP. However if you choose to ignore the PCN and do nothing then they will likely continue to hound you. Given that you appear to be in a good position then I would go in the front foot by writing to them to put this to bed. However this is your PCN and so free to do deal with it in your way.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:44
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
How will they hound the OP, if they cannot find out who the car's registered keeper is?
-------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:52
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Which is why I asked the OP, in post 2, to clarify exactly what they have received, and when.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:54
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
Which is why I asked the OP, in post 2, to clarify exactly what they have received, and when. Yes, the OP should definitely clarify this, although 'leaving site' does suggest a windscreen ticket. I'm not sure how they'd enforce it with ANPR. -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:57
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Doesnt have to be - they just take a snap and stick it in the post. Para 9 and the DVLA dont require you to use fixed, real ANPR cameras to issue a postal notice.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 10:04
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
I know that, but if they're banned from the DVLA database the OP wouldn't have received anything at all. There's usually a warden involved in 'leaving site' tickets. The OP reckons he was followed, going by his original post.
-------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 10:16
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Yes, I agree it is likely they are dealing with a NtD, however I want this confirmed
Because if not it means theyve grabbed data from elsewhere, meaning a complaint to the DVLA is due. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 10:16
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 647 Joined: 10 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,458 |
It would be useful if the OP clarified what sort of ticket they received.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:31
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 24 Jan 2015 Member No.: 75,350 |
To clarify: 1) How did you get this PCN? Through the post? 2) What was the DATE OF ISSUE? We MUST know this as UKPC are *suspended* from DVLA access. That appeal is terrible, btw. POFA2012 doesnt state a keeper can appeal, 2 is mostly a repeat of 1, youve identified the driver in this post as well - so get editing so the driver isnt visible!, im not sure that signage IS forbidding, 4 is plain wrong, and 5 isnt relevant to what theyre alleging. Sorry for the late reply. 1. It was left on the windscreen. 2. Date of issue is 15-05-2018, a week ago. So if they are suspended does that mean there is no way of them enforcing this in which case I can just ignore it? |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:40
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
In that case wait for a Notice to Keeper.
You can always appeal that if/when it arrives. Chances are it won't though. And that will be the end of it. Come back if you do receive anything at any time. Either their ban is lifted at the time your incident took place, or they've been very very naughty and we could try getting them into all sorts of trouble. This post has been edited by ManxRed: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:41 -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:40
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 647 Joined: 10 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,458 |
In which case they don't know who the driver was and can't find out who the RK is. I know what I would do with it!
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:01
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 16 Dec 2016 Member No.: 89,138 |
out of interest are we now saying that as UKPC are banned from accesing dvla data its safe to use any of their carparks for free? there is a very convenient one near me that im thinking about.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:11
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 431 Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Member No.: 45,808 |
out of interest are we now saying that as UKPC are banned from accesing dvla data its safe to use any of their carparks for free? there is a very convenient one near me that im thinking about. Certainly when VCS were banned I used a convenient local car park for nothing. |
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