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ParkingEye fine at Manchester Airport Hotel, Fined but within free stay period
Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:15
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Coming to this forum a little late, but I hope members can still offer some advice.

On 29 December My car dropped some colleagues and their bags at the Crowne Plaza Manchester Airport hotel. It was 8.30 in the morning and the weather was lousy, heavy rain, mist, the usual for this area. It is a hotel we have been using for many years, and particularly in the last three months before Christmas

The car left in 30 minutes, but I have since received a fine from ParkingEye who now control the car park. I know from previous experience that the hotel allow a free period for picking up or dropping off guests and got an email from the Hotel Guest Sevices Manager confirming 30 minutes free, although he refused to be of further assistance or provide his email in a more formal letter or company paper.

However I thought this would be enough to get the £100 fine dropped, so completed the appeals process to Parking Eye. They refused the appeal, but did not say why, neither did they provide any documents to back up their decision. They did include the link to POPLA.

I completed the POPLA appeal, and this time surprisingly, Parking Eye sent 60 pages of evidence to POPLA. They do not challenge the statement by the Hotel Manager that there is 30 minutes free parking, they simply ignore it.
However in their documents they do allude to a 10 minutes “grace” period.

I am waiting for the result of the POPLA appeal but am not feeling very confident as I think it will come down to an argument between the Hotel and ParkingEye.

My case is that the Hotel has hired ParkingEye to run the Carpark. The hotel claim I can load or drop off for 30 minutes, but ParkingEye seem unaware of this and think ten.

As far as I am concerned I’ll quite happily let this go to court and have them ask the Hotel Manager to clarify his policy. But before it gets to that stage, can members here offfer any advice?






This post has been edited by Brokenwire: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:01
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post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:15
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s360
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:44
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It's a bit late for advice seeing as you've already appealed to both P.E. and POPLA. Did you reveal who the driver was in your appeals?
If the hotel confirm 30 minutes free parking then that is what it should be. Do you have to register at the reception? What do the signs at the hotel say? can you get pics?
Presumably you can show your custom on the day in question so ideally get back onto the hotel, tell them that they have confirmed 30 mins free parking and that P.E. are trying to say otherwise, and DEMAND they instruct pe to cancel the ticket. If the manager says he can do nothing he's lying. Pe are their agents and as such the hotel are responsible for their actions and can demand cancellation. Suggest that your continued use may not continue otherwise.
If the manager won't give you confirmation of the 30 minutes free period suggest that you may call him/her as a witness in any court action. see if that gee's them up a bit.
Edited to add: your POPLA appeal will probably fail as they will simply rule on strict technicalities not mitigation. PE will show the signage and therfore they will rule the ticket was correctly issued. You can however simply reject POPLA's ruling and suggest PE take you to court if they want. As mentioned your best bet is getting the hotel to demand cancellation.

This post has been edited by s360: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:50
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bearclaw
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:44
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Edit your post now so you dont reveal who the driver was. Refer to "the driver" and yourself as "the keeper". Have you in any way revealed to Parking Eye who was driving?
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Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:07
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Sorry posts crossed as I was editing and uploading.
I have uploaded to hotel response and ticket.
They do confirm 30 minutes, there’s nothing to sign but reception staff also advise this to guests.
I can’t remember what I said to ParkingEye other than copying in the letter from the hotel.
In doing this I probably confirmed myself as the driver.

I have also now made a formal complaint to Crowne Plaza head office and copied in my company advising that I may be the first of many getting fined if this goes on, however I don’t expect any help there. The Crowne Plaza complaint has simply been copied to the Hotel Manager !!


QUOTE (s360 @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:44) *
It's a bit late for advice seeing as you've already appealed to both P.E. and POPLA. Did you reveal who the driver was in your appeals?
If the hotel confirm 30 minutes free parking then that is what it should be. Do you have to register at the reception? What do the signs at the hotel say? can you get pics?
Presumably you can show your custom on the day in question so ideally get back onto the hotel, tell them that they have confirmed 30 mins free parking and that P.E. are trying to say otherwise, and DEMAND they instruct pe to cancel the ticket. If the manager says he can do nothing he's lying. Pe are their agents and as such the hotel are responsible for their actions and can demand cancellation. Suggest that your continued use may not continue otherwise.
If the manager won't give you confirmation of the 30 minutes free period suggest that you may call him/her as a witness in any court action. see if that gee's them up a bit.
Edited to add: your POPLA appeal will probably fail as they will simply rule on strict technicalities not mitigation. PE will show the signage and therfore they will rule the ticket was correctly issued. You can however simply reject POPLA's ruling and suggest PE take you to court if they want. As mentioned your best bet is getting the hotel to demand cancellation.


Thanks, I am now drafting a letter to the Hotel Manager on these lines. I expect him to,say it is out of his hands though.


This post has been edited by Brokenwire: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:04
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s360
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:24
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Read this link for POFA HERE
Para 9 refers to ANPR tickets like yours. Their ticket doesn't state what the ticket is actually for or state the creditor (unless its on the back. can you post up the back as well). Check what else is missing with regard to POFA.
As i said, its not out of his hands or at least the hotels. Don't take no for an answer. It looks like they may be trying to ticket you for being 50 seconds over!
What have PE actually said the contravention was for?

This post has been edited by s360: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:25
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Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:38
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Just sent the following to the Hotel Manager, thanks for the advice.


Dear Mr @@@@@

I have previously contacted you regarding the parking fine I received for 30 minutes whilst my car was unloading at your hotel on 29 Dec 17.
In your reply you confirmed 30 minutes free parking whilst doing so.
However Parking Eye are refusing to cancel this fine and seem to think that 10 minutes only is available.

Having taken advice on the matter I must ask that you immediately do the following:
- As you have confirmed 30 minutes, and ParkingEye are trying to say otherwise, I must DEMAND that you instruct ParkingEye to cancel this charge.
- Parking Eye are your contracted AGENT and as such you are responsible for their actions on your property, and as such you can demand cancellation.

Failure to cancel this charge may result in legal action being taken against me for the payment of such. I can assure you that I will be requiring you to attend court as a witness in this effect.
I will also be feeding back to my company, @@@@@@@@@@ at Manchester Airport, and strongly advising that we not longer use your premises.

I look forward to your reply.





PE seem to be charging me for not having a ticket, but none was required for 30 minutes as confimed by the hotel.





Well that was fast - just recived the PFO from the Hotel Manager, he's clearly not interested.

"Thank you for contacting me again regarding your outstanding Parking Fine.


Unfortunately, as I have previously stated the hotel cannot cancel fines issued. All Parking Charge Notices issued must be appealed by the owner of the vehicle.
Please continue to follow the appeals process, and I await to hear from Parking Eye should they require any supporting information."






This post has been edited by Brokenwire: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:35
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bearclaw
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE (Brokenwire @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:38) *
Unfortunately, as I have previously stated the hotel cannot cancel fines issued. All Parking Charge Notices issued must be appealed by the owner of the vehicle.
Please continue to follow the appeals process, and I await to hear from Parking Eye should they require any supporting information."


Write back advising him that he can be summed to court if needed and getting PE to cancel this is far more preferable to that and the entirely truthful review you are bout to put on booking.com and tripadviser and so forth.....
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ostell
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:58
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That looks as though it is a non POFA PCN in that they have not complied with the requirements to hold the keeper liable for the charge. Shame you have identified the driver.
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Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 14:02
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QUOTE (bearclaw @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (Brokenwire @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:38) *
Unfortunately, as I have previously stated the hotel cannot cancel fines issued. All Parking Charge Notices issued must be appealed by the owner of the vehicle.
Please continue to follow the appeals process, and I await to hear from Parking Eye should they require any supporting information."


Write back advising him that he can be summed to court if needed and getting PE to cancel this is far more preferable to that and the entirely truthful review you are bout to put on booking.com and tripadviser and so forth.....

He’s had two emails from me now saying I will summon him but I don’t think he cares.

QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:58) *
That looks as though it is a non POFA PCN in that they have not complied with the requirements to hold the keeper liable for the charge. Shame you have identified the driver.


Yes, I wish I’d known about your site before I replied, but given the obvious, I expected it to be cancelled.
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s360
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:10
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I would reply to the idiot manager informing him that they are not fines and certainly do not need to be appealed by the owner. Clarify to him that, as they have confirmed in their previous mail, 30 minutes is given to load/unload and no permit or payment is required, therefore could he explain why they are allowing their agent to specify their own rules and harass legitimate customers. A simple mail to PE confirming what they have already told you is all thats needed. Impress on him that as PE are known to be very litigious then there is a real possibility of this going to court. Should this happen then he or the ceo may be summoned as a witness and how does he intend to explain that with the ceo? If he himself cannot request PE cancel then he should provide the contact details of someone who can. I would also be tempted to add that as PE have no cause to continue processing your details then if they continue to do so any claim for breach of the DPA and/or harassment will include the hotel as PE's principal. I would cc in the ceo too, or at least mention that if he does not act then you will be contacting the ceo.
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Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:39
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Great, thanks thats gone off. Doubt it will be long before I get another PFO though. Be interesting to see what they would say in court in response to the Magistrate asking why he didn't get the charge cancelled instead of wasting the courts time. - I presume this would end up at a Magistrates Court? Can they also assign expenses if accrued?


"Dear
Guest Service Manager
Crowne Plaza Hotel, Manchester Airport

Thank you for your reply.

These are charges, rather than fines which do not need to be appealed by the owner. As you have confirmed I had 30 minutes to load/unload and that no payment was required for this period, please could you explain why you are allowing your agent to specify their own rules and harass legitimate customers of your hotel?

As Parking Eye are known to be very litigious, there is a very real possibility that this will go to court. If this is necessary, then I have the right to summon the Hotel General Manager and yourself to give evidence as a witness. I

If you yourself cannot request Parking Eye to cancel the charge, then you should provide me with the details of someone who can.

As ParkingEye have no cause to continue processing my details, if they do so, any claim for breach of the Data Protection Act and/or harassment will include the Hotel as ParkingEyes principal.
I will have to get in touch with the Hotel General Manager if you are not able or willing to provide the requested information."
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ostell
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 16:25
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It's the County Court, at a place of your choice.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 17:06
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You mean costs. Small claims track limits these unless you can show unreasonable behaviour
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 18:43
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One other point you may be able to develop succesfully is the grace period. On their own admittance you were timed and leaving less than 31 minutes apart. Where are the cameras, presumably at the entrance/exit. You have 10 minutes grace period, (which as far as I recall is mentioned in the code of conduct for BPA members), on top of the 30 minutes free parking.

A pity that wasn't mentioned in the POPLA appeal since it should have been an easy cancellation. You'll now have to use it in court assuming you defend this.

This post has been edited by hexaflexagon: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 18:44
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 19:40
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It's no good writing to the hotel, customer services departmemt or even the hotel general manager with these sorts of service level complaints as many years has shown me. I now always go straight to the top and contact the CEO of the company. He of course won't deal with it personally, he'll pass it down to his PA to sort out. I've never yet failed with this sort of approach.

The point is that a request to sort something out coming from the CEO's or Chairman's office carries a significant amount of weight and pressure. Put yourself in the position of the hotel manager knowing that the ultimate boss is expecting something to be done. It's a racing certainty that he'll get the charge cancelled so that his name is lodged with the CEO as someone who can get things done. It's self interest at the wnd of the day.

In your case write to the CEO Keith Barr - keith.barr@ihg.com who is the CEO of the International Hotels Group of which Crowne Plaza is but one brand.

Don't be critical, be polite and friendly. Give him the essence of the facts but don't go OTT. Say that as a regular customer of x years (and if you are a shareholder mention that) you are extremely disappointed that so far the hotel has been unable to resolve this matter and you feel that they have not done all they can to have this charge cancelled. The aim is to come across as an extremely upset customer and are being penalised by something for which there is no justification.

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Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 19:49
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QUOTE (hexaflexagon @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 19:40) *
It's no good writing to the hotel, customer services departmemt or even the hotel general manager with these sorts of service level complaints as many years has shown me. I now always go straight to the top and contact the CEO of the company. He of course won't deal with it personally, he'll pass it down to his PA to sort out. I've never yet failed with this sort of approach.

The point is that a request to sort something out coming from the CEO's or Chairman's office carries a significant amount of weight and pressure. Put yourself in the position of the hotel manager knowing that the ultimate boss is expecting something to be done. It's a racing certainty that he'll get the charge cancelled so that his name is lodged with the CEO as someone who can get things done. It's self interest at the wnd of the day.

In your case write to the CEO Keith Barr - keith.barr@ihg.com who is the CEO of the International Hotels Group of which Crowne Plaza is but one brand.

Don't be critical, be polite and friendly. Give him the essence of the facts but don't go OTT. Say that as a regular customer of x years (and if you are a shareholder mention that) you are extremely disappointed that so far the hotel has been unable to resolve this matter and you feel that they have not done all they can to have this charge cancelled. The aim is to come across as an extremely upset customer and are being penalised by something for which there is no justification.


Many thanks, I’ll get this out tonight and hope we can get some feedback. I did speak to customer services last week and they agreed it should be cancelled but have been unable to progress it simply because they do not know who to contact.
I’ll email the cEO and let you know what the outcome is.
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Umkomaas
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 19:51
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^^ +1 ^^. Top advice from the 'hex'.

Almost always the organ grinder, not the monkey, when complaining.
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Brokenwire
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:12
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Well that was sorted fast - reply from the CEO's office confirming they are responsible for the car park as I thought, putting responsibility squarely with the GM of the Hotel.

"Dear Mr. *******,
Greetings from the Executive Office of IHG. Mr. Keith Barr, CEO, IHG, received your email about your frustration with the Parking Eye charges you received while at the Crowne Plaza Manchester Airport, and has asked I review this situation on his behalf.

I'm truly sorry to learn of the frustration you experienced with the Parking Eye charges after your brief visit. IHG would hope all guests have a positive and seamless experience with our hotels, and I'm sorry this wasn't the case for you. However, IHG isn't involved in the daily operations or parking policies at this independently owned and operated hotel. As the management of the hotel sets their car park registration and policies in accordance to local needs, they're in the best position to make sure this matter gets addressed appropriately. Because of this I'm including the General Manager, ******, and Mr.*****, Guest Services & Relations Manager at the hotel, in this email. They've been entrusted by the hotel's ownership company to oversee their parking polices and requirements for car registration.


Hi *****, please see the below email from Mr. *****. Will you or a member of your team please look into this issue and contact him directly as soon as possible? "


and then just arrived a few minutes ago, the following....


"

Dear Mr *****

Further to your recent communications with *** my Guest Services Manager, & *******, Executive Liaison, I have taken the opportunity to review the communication trail regarding the parking charge notice (PCN) that you have received.

Whilst the PCN has been legitimately issued by Parking Eye and the GSM has correctly advised of the appeals policy, I do acknowledge that the time you spent in our car only marginally took you beyond the 'grace' period. In light of this, as a gesture of goodwill, I will make personal contact with our account manager and arrange for this charge to be cancelled. This process may take up to 14 days to action, if you receive any further correspondence from Parking Eye within this time, please disregard it, any correspondence beyond this date please feel free to bring to my attention.


My apologies for the inconvenience caused and please don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

Kindest Regards"


Thanks to everyone here for all the advice - I'll pass it on to others to come and look on here for help.
Shockingly our local health centre has now employed ParkingEye to fine people going to the Doctors but"overstaying". Another carpark that worked well for years with a simple ticket and barrier system, so revenue raising can be the only excuse.
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makara
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:43
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Brilliant result - well done to all involved.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 12:45
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So the period of parking was under 30 minutes, the hotel confirmed they allow 30 minutes, yet the cheeky bugger says the car was parked beyond this?
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