PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Entry and Exit Times for Avg Speed NIP
NigelSa
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:29
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jun 2018
Member No.: 98,287



Hi got an NIP for 47mph in a 40mph, controlled by avg speed cameras.
The info received states that one or other photo was taken at 16:10.
In order to get an accurate speed over the distance, there must be two points in time one at at each camera location, measured in minutes and seconds, surely?

Thoughts on where this leaves me?
Lancs Constabulary if that's any help.

Thanks



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 13)
Advertisement
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:29
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:37
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,812
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (NigelSa @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:29) *
In order to get an accurate speed over the distance, there must be two points in time one at at each camera location, measured in minutes and seconds, surely?

That's correct and they will have this. (And the exact distance between the gantries/posts)

QUOTE (NigelSa @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:29) *
Thoughts on where this leaves me?

Requiring to name the driver.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:38


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NigelSa
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:41
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jun 2018
Member No.: 98,287



How do I get this information?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:44
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,812
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (NigelSa @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:41) *
How do I get this information?

You have no right to it now. However, they might provide if you ask. Normally, we'd suggest asking for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver and they may supply both snaps.

Ultimately, you may have reject any course or fixed penalty and take the matter to court if you really want to see it. (But that could be an expensive trip)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:45


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NigelSa
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:55
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jun 2018
Member No.: 98,287



As that information *is* the evidence for prosecution, omitting it from the NIP seems quite startling. When you say 'you have no right to it now' do you mean I somehow did have the right to see it before the NIP arrived but that moment has passed or 'drivers in general' have no right to see it now?

I have seen the photos and I have no issue with them with their identification of the car and me as driver.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:35
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,812
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



At the moment the driver is being requested for an alleged offence.

Failing to do so is a separate offence and must be complied with.

What will follow is an offer not to prosecute - they do not have to provide any evidence. Should you not want to accept this offer then the matter will follow court procedures. You will have the opportunity to receive and challenge any such evidence but the fixed penalty/course will be off the table.

If you are found guilty (for which you almost certainly will be) then it will be costly or very costly depending on whether it goes to a contested hearing or not.

It may be startling but that’s the process. You have no right to receive the evidence they would use for a prosecution until the expiration of the suspended enforcement period and the matter goes to court.

As I said, they may provide you additional information but they may simply refuse prior to proceedings.

Do you have a specific doubt the on measurement? (SPECS and the like are highly reliable)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:36


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:37
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 962
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (NigelSa @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:55) *
As that information *is* the evidence for prosecution, omitting it from the NIP seems quite startling. When you say 'you have no right to it now' do you mean I somehow did have the right to see it before the NIP arrived but that moment has passed or 'drivers in general' have no right to see it now?

I have seen the photos and I have no issue with them with their identification of the car and me as driver.


No-one accused of a criminal offence is entitled to see the evidence against him, unless he opts to plead not guilty at court.

The fixed penalty system is designed to enable the motorist who accepts his guilt to avoid the hassle of a court visit, and to save expense for both him and the authorities.

Anecdotally, the average speed camera system is very robust and accurate. Challenging that could be very expensive should you fail. I don't recall any case on here where someone has succeded.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mdann52
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:39
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 151
Joined: 19 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,499



QUOTE (NigelSa @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 16:55) *
As that information *is* the evidence for prosecution, omitting it from the NIP seems quite startling. When you say 'you have no right to it now' do you mean I somehow did have the right to see it before the NIP arrived but that moment has passed or 'drivers in general' have no right to see it now?

I have seen the photos and I have no issue with them with their identification of the car and me as driver.


I think you're getting confused here. The NIP/S172 notice is just to allow the police to know the identity of a driver of a given vehicle at a given time. Once this is responded to, the police usually would then send out a COFP (conditional offer of fixed penalty), which is a way of disposing of the offence without any formal admission of guilt (in the eyes of a court at least). It also means the case does not go to court, which if you are sure you are driving and do not want to dispute the speed, if often the best way out to avoid a formal verdict and extra costs should you be found guilty.

If it cannot be resolved by either of these, then the case reverts to a full court hearing, and it is not until this point the police are required to fully disclose the evidence relating to the offence.


Regardless, if you were the driver of the vehicle at the time (which you do not dispute), you are required to respond naming yourself as the driver, and then see what future paperwork comes your way.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NigelSa
post Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 17:06
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jun 2018
Member No.: 98,287



Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NigelSa
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:25
Post #10


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jun 2018
Member No.: 98,287



Just as a post script to this, I asked for the time stamped photos and they were emailed to me within minutes. Worth checking in my opinion.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:28
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,812
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Have you managed to confirm the alleged speed is correct then? (As they don't usually provide the distance between cameras)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NigelSa
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:31
Post #12


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jun 2018
Member No.: 98,287



Yes, the distance was included and the calculation sadly all too accurate....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 15:09
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,812
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Ok, they are accurate indeed.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 10:12
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,605
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (666 @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 17:37) *
No-one accused of a criminal offence is entitled to see the evidence against him, unless he opts to plead not guilty at court. until court proceedings are extant.

FTFY.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 10:13


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 20th September 2018 - 09:45
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.