Pcn-62-chafford way rm6, Pcn issued under code 62, chafford way rm6 Options

[Gxstah]

I received this pcn this morning for code 62, i have parked here numerous times and never had a ticket until today. I feel i am probably in the wrong but any help is much appreciated.

https://ibb.co/nmR1Bxh
https://ibb.co/5hZZPPj
https://ibb.co/9c6dVdp
https://ibb.co/4MGxwXx

The images of the pcn and car parked. Council images not available yet.

This post has been edited by Gxstah: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:39

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[PASTMYBEST]

you are going to need the resolution disapplying the footway parking ban It is likely firstly that Redbridge do not have one and second that it applies to the whole length of the road and the sign is placed on the lamp post for convenience

[Mad Mick V]

+1

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Chaffor...#33;4d0.1209267

Sign with arrow has to be countered by what PMB says.

Mick

[Gxstah]

Went back to see the area i was parked just before the sign, but after the double yellows, does this mean that parking is allowed on the road and not part on the footway like the other cars?.

'you are going to need the resolution disapplying the footway parking ban It is likely firstly that Redbridge do not have one and second that it applies to the whole length of the road and the sign is placed on the lamp post for convenience'
Where would I be able to get this from?
Thanks

[PASTMYBEST]

Went back to see the area i was parked just before the sign, but after the double yellows, does this mean that parking is allowed on the road and not part on the footway like the other cars?.

'you are going to need the resolution disapplying the footway parking ban It is likely firstly that Redbridge do not have one and second that it applies to the whole length of the road and the sign is placed on the lamp post for convenience'
Where would I be able to get this from?
Thanks

Ask Redbridge for it

[Gxstah]

Went back to see the area i was parked just before the sign, but after the double yellows, does this mean that parking is allowed on the road and not part on the footway like the other cars?.

'you are going to need the resolution disapplying the footway parking ban It is likely firstly that Redbridge do not have one and second that it applies to the whole length of the road and the sign is placed on the lamp post for convenience'
Where would I be able to get this from?
Thanks

Ask Redbridge for it

Thanks is that via appeal or freedom of information? Or do I just ask for it upright?

[cp8759]

Just ask, don't use FOI that will take too long.

[Gxstah]

Just ask, don't use FOI that will take too long.

Many thanks all done

[Gxstah]

Didnt receive a response from redbridge other than in accordance to the foi request we will supply a outcome by the 16th jan, however i sent an appeal in the meantime. After reading other posts on here.

Pcn ref af.....

I refer to the above which was issued to my car, presumably because the CEO thought that the parking on the footway sign accurately indicates the limit of the length of street where the council have disapplied the GLC footway parking prohibition and on which parking on the footway is permitted. If officers are aware of this area, it would be illogical for the area to start at this point given that it is over a car length away from the end of the double yellow line, where if parked on the carriageway would make it difficult for traffic to pass. My instinct and belief and my grounds of challenge are that the area where footway parking is permitted starts immediately after the double yellow lines therefore I was parked lawfully. As officers should be aware, the sign does not in itself create the permitted parking area, but only marks its limits and it is not unknown for councils (wrongly) to use the nearest convenient post rather than relocate or install one at the location specified in the resolution. 

If the authority reject this challenge then they are obliged to provide a copy of the council resolution which specifies the limits of the permitted parking area. If the authority are in any doubt on this point, for example the format and content of the resolution, then they should contact the council's legal officers for advice. In the context of my representations and argument, it would be unacceptable for officers to assume that the sign marks the absolute start of the permitted parking area. 

[Gxstah]

Attached is what i received from redbridge council, i suppose they don't have the actual resolution.

Attached File(s)

 Area_5_Approval.pdf_1_.pdf ( 71.38K ) Number of downloads: 59

 

[cp8759]

Attached is what i received from redbridge council, i suppose they don't have the actual resolution.

Under "Proposals" it says detailed maps for each street are available for each street listed overleaf, if you go back to the FOI team and ask for the map for Chafford Way they will send it to you. However without the formal resolution, the council can't prove their case, see Daniel Gentry v London Borough of Redbridge (case reference 2160356237):

Mr Gentry appeared before me today for the personal hearing of his appeal. He gave evidence in the same terms as his earlier representations to the Enforcement Authority and his Notice of Appeal, adding further details to his account.
He does not dispute that his car was parked with two wheels on the footway in Fairway Gardens not far from its junction with Loxford Lane when this Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) was issued to it. He does not now dispute either that there was a sign on a lamp post in front of his car indicating that footway parking was permitted beyond that point. However he has challenged the Authority’s power to issue a PCN in these circumstances, on the basis of information which he saw on plans published on their own website.
Mr Gentry has repeatedly asked the Authority to produce copies of the resolution(s) which he argues were required under Section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 (as amended) to authorise the exemption (and more particularly the extent of such exemptions at this location) from the London-wide ban on footway parking. Having first informed him that no such resolutions were required, and that they were entitled to simply rely on the signs, the Authority asserted in their Notice of Rejection that they had indeed “obtained the relevant resolutions to exempt roads from the Great London Councils footway ban"". They have not, however, seen fit to produce any such resolutions for the appeal.
By way of background, Mr Gentry explained that he had lived for 10 years at his parents’ house just round the corner from this location in Loxford Lane, and that for many years vehicles routinely parked on the full length of the footways in all the streets in the area, save for where there were double yellow lines on the corners. He acknowledged that on this occasion he had parked where he did for that reason, and accepted that he had not actually seen the footway parking sign on the lamp post at the time.
However he has produced the plans from the Authority’s website, which indicate that they relate to a review carried out in 2014 of footway parking provision in the area. As far as I can interpret them, the streets marked in blue were those subject to review. The Key appears to indicate that dotted black lines indicated the Existing lengths of street which were currently exempt from the ban. That dotted black line appears to include the part of Fairway Gardens where Mr Gentry’s car was parked when this PCN was issued to it.
It is apparent that the review proposed the erection of signs which were in fact in place at the location when the PCN was issued, but what is conspicuously lacking in the evidence before me is any resolution by the Authority which puts those changes (between existing and proposed exemptions) into effect.
Without that evidence, which Mr Gentry has clearly and repeatedly requested, I cannot be satisfied that the point in Fairway Gardens where he parked was not in fact, despite the positioning of the signs, still not subject to a footway parking exemption. Consequently I cannot be satisfied that the contravention alleged occurred.
I must therefore allow this appeal.
I emphasised to Mr Gentry that I have not made a finding of fact that an exemption did apply at the material time. The appeal has been allowed simply because I cannot be satisfied that it did not. He should not therefore take this decision as implying that he can park at this location with impunity in the future.

[Gxstah]

This is the following conversation with them, but will ask for a map too.

'Hi thanks for the reply, however what you have provided is not what i was asking for. I was asking for the resolution disapplying the footway parking ban on Chafford Way, RM6. However I was given a list of road names, does this mean the whole road is included?
Thanks'

Their reply 'Yes, there are signs at either end of the road which show you the extents of the footway parking.

Regards'

What do I make of this?

[cp8759]

This is the following conversation with them, but will ask for a map too.

'Hi thanks for the reply, however what you have provided is not what i was asking for. I was asking for the resolution disapplying the footway parking ban on Chafford Way, RM6. However I was given a list of road names, does this mean the whole road is included?
Thanks'

Their reply 'Yes, there are signs at either end of the road which show you the extents of the footway parking.

Regards'

What do I make of this?

That the person you've spoken to is doing their best to be helpful, but they're not legally trained.

[Gxstah]

Still no reply from appeal which was sent on the 10th jan,so ot's 56 days, but as this was an informal appeal i take it there is no time limit? Alsl no nto received. Also i asked the person whom emailed me with the list of road names for the resolution as required for the footway parking, but didn't receive a reply either. Looks like i will have to wait this one out.

[peodude]

Still no reply from appeal which was sent on the 10th jan,so ot's 56 days, but as this was an informal appeal i take it there is no time limit? Alsl no nto received. Also i asked the person whom emailed me with the list of road names for the resolution as required for the footway parking, but didn't receive a reply either. Looks like i will have to wait this one out.

Are you the registered keeper and is the V5C up to date and correct? Don't assume, get it in your hands and check, otherwise things become a lot more messy.

[Gxstah]

Still no reply from appeal which was sent on the 10th jan,so ot's 56 days, but as this was an informal appeal i take it there is no time limit? Alsl no nto received. Also i asked the person whom emailed me with the list of road names for the resolution as required for the footway parking, but didn't receive a reply either. Looks like i will have to wait this one out.

Are you the registered keeper and is the V5C up to date and correct? Don't assume, get it in your hands and check, otherwise things become a lot more messy.

Yep everything up to date and im the registered keeper. Is it best to contact them? the pcn is showing online as challenged logged.

[cp8759]

Still no reply from appeal which was sent on the 10th jan,so ot's 56 days, but as this was an informal appeal i take it there is no time limit? Alsl no nto received. Also i asked the person whom emailed me with the list of road names for the resolution as required for the footway parking, but didn't receive a reply either. Looks like i will have to wait this one out.

Are you the registered keeper and is the V5C up to date and correct? Don't assume, get it in your hands and check, otherwise things become a lot more messy.

Yep everything up to date and im the registered keeper. Is it best to contact them? the pcn is showing online as challenged logged.

Just leave it, although there's no formal time limit, some adjudicators will allow an appeal if an informal rejection is issued after a significant delay.

[Gxstah]

Hi, so finally received a response from Redbridge, standard rejection letter, not even addressing the points I made and still no resolution. I feel this will be going all the way. I'll now have to wait for a NtO and make formal reps if I'm correct? Thanks
https://ibb.co/S6wd66T

[cp8759]

Did you go back to the FOI team and ask for the map for Chafford Way?

[Gxstah]

Did you go back to the FOI team and ask for the map for Chafford Way?

Yes I have and received no reply, I have resent the email again hopefully get a response this time.