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TfL Code 46 - How to appeal
jayu619
post Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 23:08
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Hi All,

My father got a ticket for parking on a red route, outside the times of 10am-4pm...e parked at 5pm.
Below are picture of the PCN. Can anything be done to get out of paying:













My father parked facing traffic, and missed the sign post showing the times allowed to park, which was 10 to 4pm.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jay
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post Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 23:08
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jayu619
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 09:43
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Hi All -

Anyone else can comment ? Would appealing stating that my father came back within a few minutes of the video ending suffice?

I am inclined to pay the reduced amount if the above will not work.

Thanks
Jay

This post has been edited by jayu619: Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 10:10
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hcandersen
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 10:11
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When you posted the stills you included a letter in which they said the penalty was on hold for 14 days.

30 days later you posted that you had viewed the video.

Is the penalty still on hold, if so until when?
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stamfordman
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 10:22
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If discount on offer this is best now - the contravention on red routes is no stopping, and 2 mins is way too long.
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jayu619
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 10:30
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 11:11) *
When you posted the stills you included a letter in which they said the penalty was on hold for 14 days.

30 days later you posted that you had viewed the video.

Is the penalty still on hold, if so until when?


Hi hcanderson

I checked the status of the PCN, and the outstanding amount is showing as still £65. The last update on the status page was on the 28th March, which is when the DVD footage was sent to my father. But he was never in, and it was sent recorded delivery requiring a signature. The letter in fact, got picked up on 3rd April.

The card left from Royal Mail was 29th Friday March, so the 21 days discount period would theoretically end today. Not sure if the 21 days would be from pickup date of 3/4/19.

The correspondence letter which came with the DVD never mentioned about the discount period from which date it would begin...just said, as requested, please find enclosed a copy of the footage.

I am thinking if I leave it over the weekend, and if the amount goes up to £130, could I argue one of the grounds by stating the letter which accompanied the dvd footage, never made clear about the 21 days as to which date it would start from - 28/3 or 3/4.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Jay
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cp8759
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 23:11
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When did TFL say they'd extend the discount period again? Do you have anything in writing?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 00:44
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If you can pay the discount do so, there in no clear winning argument here


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jayu619
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 21:07
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Hi Guys -

I am in need of some urgent help here!

As you saw from the post, my father received a PCN for parking on the red route. From your advice, I did the following, in the order which it happened:

1. wrote to TfL asking for further evidence - the address to which we asked them to send the footage to was his temporary address as his home was getting refurbished. The letter also had this temporary address written on the top right hand corner of the letter. Saw that the case was on hold. Still images were sent to the temporary address, and said the case is on hold for 14 days.
2. Phoned in to ask for footage, after advice on here to see whether my father did come back to his vehicle or not. Unfortunately he did not. CCTV footage was sent to his registered address, not temporary address.
3. When he was about to pay the - what he thought was the discounted amount of £65, the PCN went back up to £130.
4. I wrote a representation appealing on ground 1, procedural impropriety because it was not clear when the discount period would end, as we thought we had time since the case was on hold. Also to mention, I added the registered address of my father in the representation, on the top right hand corner especially as he'd moved back to his registered address.

This is where it gets a little complicated...

5. supposedly, TfL replied back. By which time he had gone back to his registered address. TfL in fact, sent their response of accepting the discounted period on this occasion, but sent the response to the temporary address. He never got to see their response in order to pay or take further action.
6. father received a charge notice through the post to his registered address.

I called TfL up in fury, based on 3 reasons - which is where I need some help, if we have a case:

Firstly, the representation we made, was apparently outside the 28 days. According to them, contravention occurred on the 2 February, and by the time we made our representation on 23 April, it was 2 months after the contravention. But I kept telling her I requested pictures and footage in between, and each time the case was being put on hold. Furthermore, the lady was referring me to the back of the first PCN received, regarding the 28 days. But I said, it is not clear whether when we request evidence, if that affects the 28 days. She said, doesn't matter whether you request footage or not, you ought to have made a representation within the 28 days. I even went on to say, what if the evidence had something that could help my case with you sending it after the 28 days ends, would that stop me appealing? Left it at that because she was not getting it.

Secondly, I said we never had the chance of seeing TfL's response to our representation because you sent it to the temporary address, despite me writing the registered address on top right hand corner. Otherwise, we would have paid the discounted rate. The lady replied because we never mentioned it in our representation letter where to send the response, they sent it to temporary address. It's strange that the picture evidence came to temporary address as requested and when I phoned for video footage, the gentleman said can only send it to the registered address, which they did.

Thirdly, (and not sure if I have this correct), I was banging on about that we should have had the chance to appeal to tribunal, but was not. Is that right? The lady again replied saying the 28 days was lost after the 2 February, so basically I should have sent in a representation by 2 march. The first picture evidence received was 11 March.

Anyway, is there a case to be won here? Sorry for the long winded message, but wanted to cover everything.

We have 14 days from 11 June to pay or the matter will be escalated to county court.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jay

This post has been edited by jayu619: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 21:55
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cp8759
post Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 22:25
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Without seeing any of the documents, I can't make head nor tail of your (frankly) rambling account. Either show us all the paperwork, or pay the charge before it goes up even more.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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jayu619
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 12:44
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 23:25) *
Without seeing any of the documents, I can't make head nor tail of your (frankly) rambling account. Either show us all the paperwork, or pay the charge before it goes up even more.


I will post up tonight when I receive the scanned info
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jayu619
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 17:47
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Hi -

Here are all the documents, in chronological order:

1. PCN received through the post, as linked on post #1, dated 9/2/19 (address where car is registered)
2. Letter sent from us requesting for further evidence, dated 28/2/19 - asking response to be sent to temporary address:



3. The corresponding letter TfL sent on 11/3/19 - TfL wrote to temporary address as requested:




4. I phoned TfL on 19/3/19 asking for CCTV footage to see whether my father did end up going to his car as suggested on this forum.
5. TfL sent the CCTV on a disc to where his car is registered with the attached letter, 29/3/19 - father tried getting it sent to his temporary address but the agent from TfL said they could only send to the address where car is registered:



6. Father sent a representation on 23/4/19, where the address on right hand corner was his car is registered. The letter did not mention anything about sending TfL's response to registered address:



7. The next letter father received was the Charge Certificate. When received, he phoned TfL who advised that a response was sent accepting the discounted rate in May, but the letter was sent to temporary address because father did not stipulate in his representation on 23/4/19 that the letter should be sent to his address here the car is registered. CC was received on 11/6/19:




This is where we are at in terms of time line - father clearly did not receive TfL response accepting discounted amount. TfL are unwilling to still accept the discounted rate having informed that he did not receive this letter, let alone cancel it.

I am unsure why they would say the case is on hold, and then the 28 days lapses regardless of whether you ask for footage or not. From the initial PCn through post, nothing is mentioned about what happens in regards to the 28 days if you request footage etc. Here is the case updates from TfL's own website:




Would it be worth taking them to court? Or waiting for the recovery of statement to come through?

Thank you in advance for your help.
Jay

This post has been edited by jayu619: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 17:49
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 17:59
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TfL must send the notice of rejection to the address held by DVLA


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jayu619
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 18:52
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 18:59) *
TfL must send the notice of rejection to the address held by DVLA


Hi PMB
Supposedly they sent a reply to the temporary address, even though it was not a rejection to his representation; in fact they accepted the discounted amount, But of course never received by my father.

Should they have sent that reply to the registered address or temporary address given that he did not stipulate he's moved back to the registered address?

Thanks,
Jay
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jayu619
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 21:22
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Hi Guys

Just bumping this one up, if anyone can help.
Thank you in advance
Jay
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cp8759
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 11:47
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Has your father received the rejection letter?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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jayu619
post Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 06:10
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 12:47) *
Has your father received the rejection letter?


Hi CP
Since his last representation about the discount, he didn't receive anything. Just the charge certificate.

But according to TfL, they sent a reply stating they accepted father's representation albeit sent to temporary address. So NEVER got TfLs reply.

What do you think?
Jay
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cp8759
post Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 19:37
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If he didn't receive it, he didn't receive it, so I'd say there's grounds to make a witness statement to that effect. That will at least reset the penalty to £130. The process is explained here: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...ment-process#ws but in a nutshell you must wait for the Order for Recovery to come through before you can do this.

All documents should go to the same address where the charge certificate was sent, so you need to ensure documents can be received at that address and forwarded if necessary.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 19:40


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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