Donald Trump |
Donald Trump |
Tue, 1 Nov 2016 - 16:11
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 547 Joined: 5 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,550 |
The next US president.
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Tue, 1 Nov 2016 - 16:11
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 09:32
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#661
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Regardless of one'sown political persuasion, surely common-sense would be to do an open and transparent audit of the election? Then doubt will be removed (reduced in reality as some will never agree), but at least onlookers can see if there was anything awry. The hardcore Trump supporters (such as the ones who took part in the riot) will never agree, they will just claim the auditors are "corrupt". Frankly I think the core of the MAGA movement is no less insane than the FMOTL / sovcit movement, any evidence you put to them will be explained away as part of the conspiracy. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 09:36
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#662
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,749 Joined: 11 Oct 2007 From: hull Member No.: 14,394 |
-------------------- ARSE DRINK FECK........
DRINK MORE TOILET DUCK 50 mls vodka 50 mls Red Bull 330 mls Blue Wkd 25 mls tequila |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 09:41
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#663
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Member Group: Members Posts: 972 Joined: 9 Oct 2016 Member No.: 87,665 |
Sigh................usual/typical/expected response. 'Open' isn't the same as independent. Open = visible in this context. Moroever, as we're seeing here, (most) folk no longer take 'the authorities' at their word. swallow blindly indeed. What makes you think that the ‘openness’ of the audits so far is the problem? It’s certainly not the conclusion I would have drawn, so I’m curious. |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 10:09
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#664
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,074 Joined: 17 Nov 2015 Member No.: 80,686 |
Sigh................usual/typical/expected response. 'Open' isn't the same as independent. Open = visible in this context. Moroever, as we're seeing here, (most) folk no longer take 'the authorities' at their word. swallow blindly indeed. What makes you think that the ‘openness’ of the audits so far is the problem? It’s certainly not the conclusion I would have drawn, so I’m curious. There seems to be a strong feeling amongst many Americans that there were 'irregularities' in the election. That feeling seems to be exacerbated by the reluctance of some in the 'authorities' to publically (aka 'openly) audit and report.......that reluctance fires the unrest, more so as the US has a much stronger 'rebellion' culture than European countries. ('What are they hiding') The guns would be spiked (literally and metaphorically!) if an open and transparent audit showed no (meaningful) irregularities. The state doing it, whether by Stateor Federal authorities is turkeys voting for Xmas - that aspect would be no different here! Of course, if an audit did show something up..................... Is the the only 'problem'? Nope, but I reckon it would make a marked contribution to calming the emotions. What's your perspective on the principal problem(s)? |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 11:20
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#665
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Member Group: Members Posts: 972 Joined: 9 Oct 2016 Member No.: 87,665 |
There seems to be a strong feeling amongst many Americans that there were 'irregularities' in the election. That feeling seems to be exacerbated by the reluctance of some in the 'authorities' to publically (aka 'openly) audit and report.......that reluctance fires the unrest, more so as the US has a much stronger 'rebellion' culture than European countries. ('What are they hiding') The guns would be spiked (literally and metaphorically!) if an open and transparent audit showed no (meaningful) irregularities. The state doing it, whether by Stateor Federal authorities is turkeys voting for Xmas - that aspect would be no different here! Of course, if an audit did show something up..................... Is the the only 'problem'? Nope, but I reckon it would make a marked contribution to calming the emotions. What's your perspective on the principal problem(s)? I don’t think the feeling is exacerbated by a lack of open audits. This can be seen clearly in states that have carried out open audits, where those audits have had absolutely no effect on the people who believe the election was rigged. I’ve seen no evidence that a lack of openness has contributed to this situation, and no widespread calls for more openness from Trumps supporters. I think you are mistaking people using anything they can (hence the lack of widespread calls - people are just randomly jumping on anything they perceive as a chink in the armour) in an attempt to sow seeds of doubt with people making a genuine request for transparency. |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 11:27
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#666
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,074 Joined: 17 Nov 2015 Member No.: 80,686 |
OK, so what's your take on the causes?
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 12:12
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#667
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
OK, so what's your take on the causes? The US has a thin veneer of democracy and a large number of people who don't realise they are being lied to and are susceptible to fear mongering. Trump and his operators have been masters at manipulating this but they couldn't cover up the 300,000+ dead Covid Americans. They tried of course to get the election struck out but that was a continuation of the strategy and was fully expected. |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 12:27
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#668
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Member Group: Members Posts: 972 Joined: 9 Oct 2016 Member No.: 87,665 |
OK, so what's your take on the causes? I think the most pressing issue is the way some politicians have embraced not just conspiracy theories, but the fundamentals of how conspiracy theories work, in order to create a following that can be manipulated into believing a narrative that requires no evidence whatsoever. |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 12:39
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#669
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,397 Joined: 12 Jun 2008 From: West Sussex Member No.: 20,304 |
OK, so what's your take on the causes? The US has a thin veneer of democracy and a large number of people who don't realise they are being lied to and are susceptible to fear mongering. Trump and his operators have been masters at manipulating this but they couldn't cover up the 300,000+ dead Covid Americans. They tried of course to get the election struck out but that was a continuation of the strategy and was fully expected. The question is . . . . did those 300,000 vote? |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 12:56
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#670
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
OK, so what's your take on the causes? The US has a thin veneer of democracy and a large number of people who don't realise they are being lied to and are susceptible to fear mongering. Trump and his operators have been masters at manipulating this but they couldn't cover up the 300,000+ dead Covid Americans. They tried of course to get the election struck out but that was a continuation of the strategy and was fully expected. The question is . . . . did those 300,000 vote? Some US states allow dead voters to count if they did a mail in vote but then died before election day, but more states disallow these if they can find out in time. Still other states have no rules on this. I presume your question though is about the conspiracy that many thousands of previously dead vote in American elections. |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 13:33
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#671
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
There is an old adage that a lie can circle the world before the truth has got its boots on.
It doesn't matter that science for centuries have proved the world is round, flat earthers still believe. Aliens in Area 51, Elvis is working in the local chip shop, Kennedy was shot by the CIA, Covid is spread by 5G, the moon landings were filmed in Arizona, MAgna Carta still holds sway etc etc. Comes as no surprise that those who get their facts from Twitface don't believe open audits or court decisions |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 13:45
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#672
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
There had only been 2 recorded cases of 'dead voters voting' last time I looked in detail, one was where a voter had the same name as his deceased dad and an entirely legitimate vote was misallocated, the other was a Trump voter trying to offset perceived electoral fraud with his own actual vote by voting as himself and then as his dead dad.
The repeated 2 faced-ness of Trump supporters is astounding, black footballers taking a knee are anti-american, but armed terrorists storming the seat of government to try and overturn an election they don't like the result of are patriots. Taking a knee is an abuse of the first amendment, armed terrorists are not. At least now the (Ex? or still current?) Confederate states can now claim they got their battle flag into the heart of DC. Then all those who committed crimes under the flag protection act by sewing Trumps name on them, real patriots? The latest is the identified terrorists being slapped with 'no fly' bans are crying like snowflakes, but were happy to support bans for every Muslim in the USA just in case they may be a terrorist. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 14:27
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#673
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Then all those who committed crimes under the flag protection act by sewing Trumps name on them, real patriots? First Amendment? Flag burning/desecration is constitutionally protected... -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 - 16:10
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#674
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Then all those who committed crimes under the flag protection act by sewing Trumps name on them, real patriots? As sp mentioned, you might want to look up United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990). -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 13 Jan 2021 - 07:25
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#675
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Thanks for the correction, I got two different flag protection acts mixed up, the first made burning/defacing it an offence but that was overturned by the SCOTUS for first amendment defences of 'expression', a second was prepared which (on the face of it) would have allowed it to over ride the 1st A but was never enacted.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 24 Mar 2021 - 10:21
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#676
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
So now one of Donald Trump's attorneys (Sydney Powell), in her defence to the lawsuit brought by Dominion (voting machine manufacturer) has stated that her claims of election fraud were merely her opinion and that no 'reasonable people would accept such statements as fact'. Or in other words they are now saying that they knew all along that the claims of fraud were in fact based in no facts at all.
Of course she now has to have her own attorneys. (MAGA - Making Attorneys Get Attorneys). https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...t-b1820886.html Of course this isn't unprecedented, Fox 'News' and Alex Jones have both tried to use this defence in the past when sued for their more outrageous statements, despite claiming to be news outlets. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 24 Mar 2021 - 11:09
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#677
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Member Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,086 |
Fox 'News' and Alex Jones have both tried to use this defence in the past when sued for their more outrageous statements, despite claiming to be news outlets. Tucker Carlson, Fox News, not only tried but actually won with this argument. “ Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." “ Tucker |
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Wed, 24 Mar 2021 - 11:36
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#678
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Fox news won that one, they lost another related to a 'Fox and friends' morning show suite.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 07:07
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#679
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
So now one of Donald Trump's attorneys (Sydney Powell), in her defence to the lawsuit brought by Dominion (voting machine manufacturer) has stated that her claims of election fraud were merely her opinion and that no 'reasonable people would accept such statements as fact'. Or in other words they are now saying that they knew all along that the claims of fraud were in fact based in no facts at all. Didn't some of her claims make it as far as court filings (even if not sworn testimony under oath)? Surely that isn't just "freedom of speech"? Mind you, when you're on the hook for more than $1bn, it's straw-clutching time. Meanwhile, we haven't heard what Guliani's defence is for the parallel case. Up to now, he's still been maintaining he'll use the opportunity to prove the fraud. This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 07:08 |
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Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 07:27
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#680
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Didn't some of her claims make it as far as court filings No, none of the filings I have detail on actually made direct allegations of fraud, most were on legalities. A few made claims of 'irregularities' being reported (such as some that appeared on SM and were then debunked) and used that to ask for some form of recount but stopped short of claiming it was actual fraud. What the Ant Hill Mob (Guiliani, Powell and Wood) said in public was very different to their actual filings. A lot of the big law firms they retained dropped them very quickly as clients when they realised it was all just a PR stunt and refused to put their names to any filings. Actually one big PR stunt I think adequately sums up the 5 years from his announcing his running! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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