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Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:44


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What's the alleged offence?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813637 · Replies: 6 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 13:29


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QUOTE (gitwr123 @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 14:01) *
So if I can prove I was there 24th Dec 2022, didn't enter my details and didn't receive a ticket, then I have a defence on that basis?

No.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813596 · Replies: 12 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 13:26


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QUOTE (Little Greene @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 13:45) *
What would be the general opinion of these alleged offences. I now understand that the rule is 1.5 metres distance and yes all road users need to be considered but cyclist that go through red lights and hop on off the roads don't get punished but us sensible drivers are punished for going by a cyclist carefully and safety?? Sorry for moaning but I feel aggrieved.

Only your alleged actions are under consideration. It can be considered 'careless/inconsiderate' driving for passing a cyclist too close. 1.5m isn't actually law but the Highway Code would be considered as a benchmark of how a safe and competent driver would overtake.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813595 · Replies: 8 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 13:23


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QUOTE (Little Greene @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 13:01) *
Thanks for replying. I am just concerned they want to prosecute if you don't respond and presume that you are totally guilty. I probably wanted to apologise for upsetting the cyclist for causing any discomfort. This possible I admitance of guilt. I vaguely remember the alleged incident. Can I I request video footage once the form is submitted. Thanks

One assumes they've reviewed the incident and believe an offence has been committed. You are not presumed guilty, but making statements like the above won't be helpful.

You can request the footage but prior to court proceedings they don't have to provide it.

Chances are they'll offer a course or fixed penalty over a full on prosecution.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813592 · Replies: 8 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:46


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QUOTE (Little Greene @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 12:29) *
I wanted to know what to put in part 4 of the nip has my response to the alleged incident?

Generally worth leaving blank.

At this stage they are only request the driver identity.

I suspect they have video footage - but you may not be entitled to see it at this stage.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813579 · Replies: 8 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 10:49


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QUOTE (flopper @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 11:46) *
How would I offer settlement as there doesn't appear to be an option on the form?

You contact the claimant (or legal rep) directly. It's an 'out of court settlement'.

As noted above, do so under a 'without prejudice, save as to costs' basis. (If it does go to court then you can whip this out after judgment to hopefully ensure you avoid costs)

But I suspect they won't accept less than £150. (Remember some of the court costs have actually been incurred by them)
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813569 · Replies: 12 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 10:23


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QUOTE (flopper @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 11:14) *
The claim includes a court fee - £35 (is this the same as hearing fee) and legal rep cost - £50, are these from the court or the claimant and if so are these reasonable too or can they be disputed? Also, should I dispute the interest to the £70 charge?

Those are all fixed costs, all allowed. The hearing fee is on top (if it progresses to a hearing).

Statutory interest is allowed - up to the Judge of what's allowed.

QUOTE (flopper @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 11:14) *
Course of action:
Dispute part of the claim (the additional £70 damages and any of the unreasonable additionals) while (begrudgingly) accepting the part of the claim where a contract, by way of action, would appear to be formed by the driver for which I am responsible as the keeper.

Assuming they have complied with PoFA then the keeper is liable for the driver's unpaid parking charge.

I would never admit to part of the claim - dispute the lot. (Poor signage etc.)
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813564 · Replies: 12 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 09:48


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QUOTE (flopper @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 10:23) *
So how does the parking company get to £170 for PCN and 'damages'? What damages have I caused them in a free to park car park?

The £100 is an 'agreed' amount that they can charge as a deterrent against breach of contract [ParkingEye v Beavis 2015]. It is unlikely you'll be able to challenge that component - it's not an actual loss/damage.

However, the £70 is a 'made up' figure that is an alleged 'debt collection' charge - for which they haven't actually incurred and should be challenged - most Judges do not allow it.

QUOTE (flopper @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 10:23) *
Question: Would going to court and attempting to challenge these costs end up with additional costs or are they limited to the amount on the claim form? It's already a large amount that I will have trouble paying in one go so don't want to shoot myself in the foot by increasing the already exorbitant 'charges'.

It depends. The only other fixed cost is the hearing fee (£27) if it goes that far. They will try and attempt to recover the charges for the legal representative to attend but at small claims this is highly unlikely unless the Judge is convinced of 'unreasonable behaviour'.

That means even if they 'win' the cost of the rep will likely outweigh their gains - for which gives you something of an advantage if negotiating. (Bear in mind the £70 too)
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813560 · Replies: 12 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 09:15


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The charge will have been issued for one of the following:
1. Incorrect VRM
2. Incorrect period paid for / late payment /overstayed
3. Some other error (machine 'malfunction')

However, they are incorrectly stating their legal position.

The NtK states that <blah> <blah> we have a right to recover from YOU (i.e. the RK). They don't.

The date of the notice is 14 days after the date of the event - so it's impossible for them to comply with PoFA to hold the keeper liable. (It cannot arrive within the 14 days necessary to comply)

It's a shame you don't come here earlier as there was an dead easy way to cancel it. Now they won't - they'll only tell you that it's too late to do anything other than to pay.

Personally, I would put in writing to them that you cannot be liable for the charge as they did not comply with PoFA. Complain to the DVLA that they are misrepresenting their legal position as they can only pursue the driver - the DVLA have allowed the release of personal data which has subsequently been used without fully complying with 'reasonable cause'. Complain to the BPA too. Make yourself a pain as it may force them to cancel it.

That's all you can do. They won't go away and they may eventually sue (they have 6 years to do so).

QUOTE (Dave65 @ Mon, 15 Apr 2024 - 10:06) *
Incident date 15th, issued date 29th, cannot have reached the keeper within the 14 days required to hold the keeper liable for PoFA.

Indeed, and stating they can...
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813557 · Replies: 4 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 - 11:23


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QUOTE (Spinner789 @ Sun, 14 Apr 2024 - 11:45) *
As I have received it after the 14 day window, do I have grounds to appeal on the length of time given for the notice to arrive. (I.e 19 days) and so being under no obligation to reveal the keeper or on any other grounds?

I think you mean driver as they've written to the (registered) keeper.

If was dated to arrive within the 14 days (on presumption of 1st class post?).

They won't cancel it on the basis it arrived 'late'.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813504 · Replies: 5 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 13:33


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QUOTE (collateral001 @ Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 14:21) *
Do i then fill out the mitigation section to state that i will plead guilty to the speeding one offence if the s172 is dropped?

Unless the form explicitly offers a 'plea bargain' then I wouldn't offer that at this stage.

QUOTE (collateral001 @ Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 14:21) *
Secondly there is a section in the paperwork asking "I am pleading not guilty because"... do i fill that in and give any reasoning?

Nope.

QUOTE (collateral001 @ Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 14:21) *
Often it is problamatic trying to stick to 50 in these zones.

Not sure where you're heading with this - you HAVE to plead guilty to the speeding offence to see the s172 dropped.

You could ask for them to consider a fixed penalty equivalent sentence (and no costs order) but that's a stretch given the circumstances leading up the prosecution.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813457 · Replies: 37 · Views: 1,143

Jlc
Posted on: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 11:42


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PCN's can be issued either by placing a ticket on the car at the time or via post.

However, if they are seeking keeper liability then there are certain requirements to do so - otherwise, they can still pursue the driver (but would have to show on the balance of probabilities who that was).

If direct via post then it must arrive within 14 days.
If after PCN, then they must wait 28 days to access the DVLA and it has to arrive within 56 days.
(On top of other requirements, such as period of parking etc. etc.)

QUOTE (DandeLion @ Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 12:33) *
I am the registered keeper albeit it's in my company name.

This could put a slightly different angle on it. Is it registered to company name only?
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813440 · Replies: 10 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 11:03


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Are you the registered keeper? If not, they may have gone elsewhere first? (e.g. lease firm)

It has been known for PCN's pinned to cars to 'go missing'. Possibly subject a SAR to get all photo's.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813431 · Replies: 10 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 08:23


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QUOTE (DandeLion @ Sat, 13 Apr 2024 - 09:07) *
Is there anything I can do to appeal?

No. They will reject any appeal you make.

After all, you admit parking in breach of the terms?

They are litigious so are likely to sue, especially for multiple tickets.

I would note that the signs do not make it explicit that the £100 charge is per 24 hours. It only says 'Hours of enforcement' are 24 hours.

If they car was parking then it can only breach the terms once. However, they won't agree and will reject every appeal.

POPLA may support the above though.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813414 · Replies: 10 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 17:29


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QUOTE (DJ Al @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 18:24) *
My main 'beef' is that there is no evidence of the alleged offence within the NIP! How do I know it was even my vehicle?

They don't have to supply any. If you don't believe it's your vehicle then you always have the option to reject any out of court disposal and take it to court.

QUOTE (DJ Al @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 18:24) *
So I have written a letter to Devon and Cornwall Police, asking them for "relevant photographs to assist me to identify the driver".

Again, they don't have to.

QUOTE (DJ Al @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 18:24) *
It could have been myself, or my partner, who was driving at the time.
At this stage, I have not yet returned the NIP.

You need to use reasonable diligence to identify the driver. Asking for a photo won't be enough.

If you do not know who was driving and cannot identify them with the aforementioned diligence then you can go to court and attempt to convince the bench. Failure will be 6 points and around £1k in court costs etc.

QUOTE (DJ Al @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 18:24) *
Presumably they should respond with the requested photographs, to enable me to identify the driver - at which time, I should return the NIP with the required information.

No - as above.


It's a course or fixed penalty at worst if you can work out who was driving...
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813391 · Replies: 6 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 15:39


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QUOTE (Mark Richards @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 16:07) *
Which would leave only 37 days from now, before the 6 months is up?

They seem to sit on them until right up to the last few days... You can hear up to a few weeks after the date too...
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813371 · Replies: 9 · Views: 185

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 09:10


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QUOTE (Jardo345 @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 09:02) *
Thanks for the very useful response, your contribution will go a long way.

You've taken it as sarcastic - it wasn't (and to be fair you asked its relevance). Why would you want to tell the court you've been caught a 3rd time? (And how it could be perceived)
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813336 · Replies: 24 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 06:36


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QUOTE (collateral001 @ Fri, 12 Apr 2024 - 05:21) *
I did email them to which they did not reply, had they replied

...they did not have to respond at all.

Anyway, you are now in a corner. You CANNOT challenge the speeding offence, nor any potential 'Late NIP'. It seems you openly ignored the s172 request against better advice.

As they do not appear to have any evidence as to the driver then the speeding offence cannot be convicted unless you plead guilty to it (which potentially makes it a 'bargaining' chip)

You have the following options:
1. Plead guilty to both offences via post and bag at least 9 points and significant fines & costs (Likely to be £600+) - not a recommended option!
2. Defend the s172 at court. Assuming you are the person keeping the vehicle (which seems so as the hirer) then you would have to show you did not know who was driving and could not identify them after using reasonable diligence. Failure is 6 points and fines & costs likely to exceed £1k.
3. If you were driving then offer to plead guilty to the speeding offence if they drop the s172 charge. Normal sentencing is likely for the offence, but we don't know the speed - so it could be 3-6 points and the fine will be income dependent along with surcharge (40% of the fine) and costs around £85.

The last 2 options will require court attendance of course.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813330 · Replies: 37 · Views: 1,143

Jlc
Posted on: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 21:34


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What offence(s) are being prosecuted?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813321 · Replies: 37 · Views: 1,143

Jlc
Posted on: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 17:08


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If they complied with PoFA then they can pursue you (presumably the registered keeper) for the driver's unpaid parking charge.

But you haven't given us a lot to go on... I presume you ignored it?
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813298 · Replies: 8 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 15:21


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QUOTE (darreng @ Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 15:25) *
Not to mention the fact that they have far exceeded the 14 day rule.

How do you know this? As per your other comment, the 14 days only applies to the registered keeper, i.e. the first NIP only...

QUOTE (darreng @ Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 15:25) *
...motorway cameras were fixed at 80 mph.

Close... It's 79mph.

QUOTE (darreng @ Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 15:25) *
yet one rogue camera and I get a speed awareness course or a £100 fine and 3 points.

Rogue?

QUOTE (darreng @ Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 15:25) *
I feel really agrieved about this. Any thoughts?

Not sure why - you were clearly exceeding the limit.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813276 · Replies: 5 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 09:23


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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Thu, 11 Apr 2024 - 10:10) *
Unable to see whether there is a bay marking under the car but, if not, the vehicle isn't outside the bay markings.

Well there isn't a white line under the car - see here.

The question would be of the definition of a 'marked bay'. (I suspect there isn't a precise definition on the signs) - spaces are usually marked by white perimeter lines. Clearly this is an 'end space' - if it was such a big issue with people parking left of bay then the kerb shouldn't be flat - as per the bay opposite (here).

Ultimately, it's incredibly picky but bread and butter private parking... ker-ching!
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813234 · Replies: 11 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 - 20:32


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Indeed, no guarantees. Beavis essentially allowed the charge to be a deterrent against breaching terms of the contract - basically it doesn't have to be a 'loss'.

But there's still the question of commercial justification and possibly de minimis too.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1813212 · Replies: 11 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 - 16:23


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QUOTE (Jardo345 @ Wed, 10 Apr 2024 - 16:35) *
For additional context, I was caught speeding in February for another offence and I just yesterday completed by speed awareness course for it. I'm not sure if this information may be of use when trying to fight this case.

No, other than you seem to be routinely ignoring speed limits?

No surprises in their reply.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813198 · Replies: 24 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 - 14:22


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QUOTE (LincolnImp @ Wed, 10 Apr 2024 - 15:01) *
56 in a 30, so I’d imagine I need to get my suit ready. Going to plead guilty by post initially, but would imagine that won’t be accepted as ban probably considered.

Any one had experience of that speeds not being seen in person?

Yup, have an initial bite at the cherry to see if they'll award 6 points...

They are more likely to adjourn for a hearing to consider a ban though as you note.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1813184 · Replies: 21 · Views: 0

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