When is a caution considered to be spent |
When is a caution considered to be spent |
Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 23:02
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Not for myself, I’ve never received a caution.
I’m trying to help someone. Who cannot post here. They were given a caution in 2012 for a minor domestic incident. Some five years later, possibly a few days before 5 years, the person was dismissed from her job because of the caution even though she had declared it to her line manager, gave a written statement and had an interview. Would a caution show up on a DBS at the time some 4.5 - 5 years after the caution? I’d be interested in your opinions. |
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Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 23:02
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Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 23:37
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Does it matter, considering she disclosed its existence?
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 23:52
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If the employer was aware of the caution and the surrounding circumstances, and was happy to take the person on, and then simply changed its mind on a whim and not because further facts came to light, that sounds like a possible unfair dismissal case. You might want to talk to an employment lawyer.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 07:00
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I see two issues here, firstly the one raised by CP, secondly whether the dismissal was proportionate based on the what the caution was for versus the impact on their suitability to do the job.
In addition a number of times the Police have fallen foul of promising a caution won’t have any future impact and resolves the current issue without the need for court, only to then reveal it later in a DBS check, in many cases people chose not accept the caution despite feeling they could defend the allegation because of that promise. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 07:00 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 10:10
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
In addition a number of times the Police have fallen foul of promising a caution won’t have any future impact and resolves the current issue without the need for court, only to then reveal it later in a DBS check It depends on the type of check done what is produced. I have a crown court acquittal from 1983. This is disclosed which seems a bit harsh. |
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 12:25
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
How long have they been in the job?
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 12:39
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
While unfair dismissal comes to mind instantly, why a DBS check after 5 years?
Is it a new condition, change of job requirements, what ? |
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 12:40
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
In addition a number of times the Police have fallen foul of promising a caution won’t have any future impact and resolves the current issue without the need for court, only to then reveal it later in a DBS check It depends on the type of check done what is produced. Erm no, its the promise made by the Police that is the issue in those cases, there have been a few successful court cases against the Police because of it. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 14:11
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
In addition a number of times the Police have fallen foul of promising a caution won’t have any future impact and resolves the current issue without the need for court, only to then reveal it later in a DBS check It depends on the type of check done what is produced. Erm no, its the promise made by the Police that is the issue in those cases, there have been a few successful court cases against the Police because of it. There was, of course, the person who went all the way to the supreme court when a rape acquittal was disclosed in an ECRC. That went against him. But yes, I do understand your point about folk accepting cautions on the basis of no foward impact. |
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 18:49
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
From what I remember reading on here a few years ago the advice was never accept a caution, it stays on your record for ever.
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Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 19:02
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
While unfair dismissal comes to mind instantly, why a DBS check after 5 years? Is it a new condition, change of job requirements, what ? I read it as caution was 5 years ago, not necessarily that been in the job 5 years -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 08:25
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
While unfair dismissal comes to mind instantly, why a DBS check after 5 years? Is it a new condition, change of job requirements, what ? I read it as caution was 5 years ago, not necessarily that been in the job 5 years Would make a big difference. For instance, unfair dismissal generally can only be pursued if been employed for 2 years. |
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 08:46
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
It looks like she was self employed and working for a local authority looking after vulnerable people, she was told she was very good at her job.
Then there was a change of managers and the new manager dismissed her. |
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 10:59
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
It looks like she was self employed and working for a local authority looking after vulnerable people, she was told she was very good at her job. Then there was a change of managers and the new manager dismissed her. Well that opens a whole can of works, whether she was really self employed may be debatable. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 11:27
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Certainly does.... contract T&Cs come to mind but often protection is very limited.
Basics as I understand but is very basic so do not take it as gospel. Self employed, no protection against unfair dismissal. Breach of contract may be possible but T&Cs would need to be checked. Working with vulnerable people, DBS check would be needed but caution may not be a bar to employment. Comes down to employer in many cases but many err on side of caution (no pun intended) to avoid potential future questions relating to "why did you employ this person and how much compensation will you pay for your negligence in doing so ?" Simple caution spent when issued but will show on DBS for 6 years minimum. Some types show forever, sex offenders for instance and some are a bar to even applying for certain jobs let alone being employed in them. |
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 11:43
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Certainly does.... contract T&Cs come to mind but often protection is very limited. Basics as I understand but is very basic so do not take it as gospel. Self employed, no protection against unfair dismissal. Breach of contract may be possible but T&Cs would need to be checked. Working with vulnerable people, DBS check would be needed but caution may not be a bar to employment. Comes down to employer in many cases but many err on side of caution (no pun intended) to avoid potential future questions relating to "why did you employ this person and how much compensation will you pay for your negligence in doing so ?" Simple caution spent when issued but will show on DBS for 6 years minimum. Some types show forever, sex offenders for instance and some are a bar to even applying for certain jobs let alone being employed in them. QUOTE Self employed, no protection against unfair dismissal. Hasn't this changed with recent rulings Uber springs to mind -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 12:02
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Certainly does.... contract T&Cs come to mind but often protection is very limited. Basics as I understand but is very basic so do not take it as gospel. Self employed, no protection against unfair dismissal. Breach of contract may be possible but T&Cs would need to be checked. Working with vulnerable people, DBS check would be needed but caution may not be a bar to employment. Comes down to employer in many cases but many err on side of caution (no pun intended) to avoid potential future questions relating to "why did you employ this person and how much compensation will you pay for your negligence in doing so ?" Simple caution spent when issued but will show on DBS for 6 years minimum. Some types show forever, sex offenders for instance and some are a bar to even applying for certain jobs let alone being employed in them. QUOTE Self employed, no protection against unfair dismissal. Hasn't this changed with recent rulings Uber springs to mind Only if they’re not really self-employed - which has been the case for a long time. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 12:22
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,705 Joined: 20 May 2004 From: Lincolnshire Member No.: 1,224 |
From what I remember reading on here a few years ago the advice was never accept a caution, it stays on your record for ever. Reminds me of this where one of our local PCC candidates had to drop out over something that happened a long time ago. https://www.channel4.com/news/by/michael-cr...ection-drop-out |
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Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 13:19
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Self employed, no protection against unfair dismissal. Hasn't this changed with recent rulings Uber springs to mind That's where CP's comment comes in, whether or not truly self employed may be arguable. And may well be relevant following the Uber ruling. ACAS gives some guidance, other sites are available http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5890 But the basic of self employed cannot claim unfair dismissal is correct. |
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