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andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 - 15:41


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For the purposes of the continuous insurance requirements, the car needs to be insured if it is not on SORN. However, if it is parked on a public road, it is being "used" on a public road, regardless of whether or not it is drivable, and must be insured.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1473246 · Replies: 13 · Views: 489

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 20:31


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QUOTE (seank @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 16:14) *
I also don't know where you get the Americanism "officers". We don't have them in the UK. None is commissioned, none holds office. They're all just constables, holding warrant cards. Even the most senior.


ISTR a debate in Hansard many years ago - the Bill being discussed would grant Constables certain powers. F*cktards on both sides of the House were debating why Constables would have these powers, but not Sergeants, etc. Eventually the relevant minister explained that "Constable" (in that context) was an office not a rank and that all police were "Constables", the most senior even including the name in his rank.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1470344 · Replies: 30 · Views: 895

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 10 Mar 2019 - 19:44


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We have never heard of anyone 'negotiating' a deal with the CPS, but have never heard of the CPS refusing if the accused asks nicely. Whilst I have reasons to mistrust some CPS prosecutors, I would not expect them to renege on a deal such as this.

As you appear to have grasped, they potentially currently have a strong case against you for the s. 172 (although as you have chosen not to trouble us with any of the details we will simply have to assume that you have no viable defence) and presumably no case against you for the speeding. Pleading guilty to the s. 172 and not guilty to the speeding ought to see a discount off the fine for the s. 172 and the speeding dropped/not proceeded with - assuming that they have no viable means of proving that you were the driver.

edit: As much as I like a good argument down the Strand, I would suggest that cp8759's argument would work far better if they had an open mic night at the Knights Templar than it would at the Administrative Court - although he would probably get more laughs at the latter.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1469747 · Replies: 6 · Views: 625

andy_foster
Posted on: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 - 19:45


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On a vaguely related note, I'd be curious to know what was so urgent that Thames Valley Police's Neighbourhood Policing Team felt the need to abandon their van blocking at least 2 cars in the car park at my local Tesco around the time they were reducing the doughnuts.

  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1468433 · Replies: 21 · Views: 716

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 22:35


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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 2 Mar 2019 - 06:25) *
The statute says registered keeper, yes you’re still the registered keeper even though it’s in trade and I understand the police know it’s in trade, but if they fail to contact the RK open a possible defence route for the driver.


As this thread has run its course (the OP won), I see little harm in continuing this hijack...

Subject to the statutory exemptions, s. 1 RTOA 1988 (the requirement to give warning for certain offences) requires a NIP to be served on the person, if any, registered as the keeper or the driver (the person who cannot be convicted unless s. 1 is complied with) within 14 days.

IMHO it would take a particularly stubborn "whatever I said is right and can prove it by twisting whatever the actual law says but I didn't bother reading to suit my argument" attitude to say that the person shown on the register as no longer being the keeper as the vehicle is now in trade is "the person, if any, registered as the keeper" for the purposes of s. 1.

As regards ss. 1 and 2, the issue would then seem to be whether it was possible by reasonable diligence to obtain the name and address of the person who would subsequently be "the accused" in time to serve a NIP, such as by checking the MIB database.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1467491 · Replies: 28 · Views: 2,690

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 21:50


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QUOTE (sjpn_shock @ Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 21:46) *
The evidence they included was simply copies of the NIP letters (no proof of postage).


Is the address correct?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1466354 · Replies: 24 · Views: 1,004

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 21:44


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QUOTE (RossUK @ Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 21:31) *
But my insurance company's that where giving offers and some company's now wont accept guess cos of the points but still new company shown up that is more less the same as what was without the points and I get premiums go up base don area accidents too so wondering if points had any effect on it at all like.


For sh*ts and giggles, I tried running that through google translate. Google broke.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1466350 · Replies: 31 · Views: 2,750

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 21:39


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QUOTE (sjpn_shock @ Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 20:54) *
Included with the SJPN were 3 pieces of "evidence" showing that the Police had sent letters previously:
  • first letter to car finance company
  • second letter addressed to me at my home address
  • third letter addressed to me at my home address


What evidence have they disclosed regarding the letters sent to your home address?

If the police's evidence stacks up, to defend the s. 172 charge you would need to persuade the court (on the balance of probabilities) that both your NIP/s. 172 and presumably a reminder were lost in the post (or otherwise not received by you). From what you have told us so far (which is next to nothing), that isn't going to fly.

Assuming that you were the driver, if you do not have a viable defence to the s. 172 charge, the best option would seem to be to ask the prosecutor nicely if he would drop the s. 172 if you plead guilty to the red light offence.

[edit] Posts crossed, if you have not been dual charged, then it would be far more difficult to do a deal with the prosecutor.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1466348 · Replies: 24 · Views: 1,004

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 22:32


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QUOTE (Speed Penalty 1 @ Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 22:09) *
I am from Wales. Do I get 3 penalty points or 4 to 6?
Will my penalty be between 1000.00 and 2000.00?
I have no road traffic offence ever before.
My age is 60


If you are tried in England, and the judge is a rugby fan, expect a 2-3 month prison sentence. Also expect that sentence to be increased when you ask the judge if you will get a longer sentence after he has sentenced you.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1465293 · Replies: 20 · Views: 1,091

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 21:47


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QUOTE (Mozzer1975 @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 20:55) *
.couldn't find the review on this Facebook site speeding ticket removal uk?.


Perhaps our illustrious mod was being uncharacteristically subtle? For the avoidance of doubt, we do not and will not advise, assist or condone any attempt to pervert the course of justice. However, if anybody is daft enough not simply to attempt to use such 'services' but to admit to it on a public forum, we will quite happily hang them out to dry.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464895 · Replies: 15 · Views: 938

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:47


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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:29) *
I would not expect a time error to give you any immunity to prosecution, but as TR says, you can play the game by simply answering their question.


Don't know if you know anything about the law requiring a NIP to be served within 14 days for certain offences, but there is a requirement that it specify the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place. However, unlike the requirement to serve the NIP within 14 days, which is mandatory (except when any of the statutory exceptions apply), the required details are 'merely directory' - which means that if you crashed into a lorry at 11am and were fully aware that the NIP which stated 1pm related to the crash and simply had the time wrong, it would not invalidate the notice.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464831 · Replies: 10 · Views: 867

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:11


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While we are all adding +1 responses, I would like to add something with a little more substance to mine - from what we have been told (and my views on posters seeking advice on behalf of others is well known here), son is potentially in a bit of bother as regards motoring law and has also 'potentially' committed a serious offence which carries a custodial sentence.

Whilst we do and and will not encourage anyone to pervert the course of justice, I would generally caution anyone against confessing to anything that could not necessarily otherwise be proven against them - in particular pretty much the only thing dafter than a poor attempt at perverting the course of justice is admitting to attempting to pervert the course of justice (ignoring that perverting has a sufficiently wide definition to include attempts).
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464817 · Replies: 28 · Views: 1,802

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 20:08


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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 18:23) *
No. an S172 request requiring the driver to be named can be issued for any alleged motoring offence.



Curiously it doesn't apply to riding without a crash helmet - not that that assists the OP.

QUOTE
172 Duty to give information as to identity of driver etc in certain circumstances.

(1)This section applies—

(a)to any offence under the preceding provisions of this Act except—

(i)an offence under Part V, or

(ii)an offence under section 13, 16, 51(2), 61(4), 67(9), 68(4), 96 or 120,

and to an offence under section 178 of this Act,

(b)to any offence under sections 25, 26 or 27 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988,

©to any offence against any other enactment relating to the use of vehicles on roads, F2. . . and

(d)to manslaughter, or in Scotland culpable homicide, by the driver of a motor vehicle.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464594 · Replies: 15 · Views: 1,393

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 12:46


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ISTR some time ago a rather irate poster complained that PePiPoo was showing him very inappropriate adverts (not sure if it was ladyboys, but probably funnier if we assume it was) only to have our illustrious admin explain that the adverts were not controlled by the site (other than a blacklist to which offensive ads could be added manually) but served by google using the poster's own browsing history.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1464492 · Replies: 35 · Views: 1,606

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 12:41


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QUOTE (Bibbybob23 @ Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 11:32) *
Kinda stuck on what to do next!!


Ignoring any sanctimonious 'advice' that your speedo would have lead you to believe that you were breaking the law by even more than you actually were, your issue appears to be that you have been unexpectedly caught speeding twice so far (that you know of) and might possibly have more NIPs on the way, which you won't know about unless/until they drop on your doormat.

Broadly speaking, you may or may not have been caught on subsequent occasions, and may have to simply wait to see if anything else drops through the letterbox. Assuming that you are the RK, etc. NIPs for any outstanding offences would need to be served (delivered) within 14 days of the date of the offence - so not too much longer to hold your breath.

The stock advice for anyone caught on multiple occasions before receiving the first NIP is to send all the s. 172 responses back together in the same envelope with a covering (contrite/grovelling) letter explaining that you had not had the need to correct your driving brought to your attention in time to avoid making the same mistake again and asking them nicely to consider looking at them as a single mistake. Chances of leniency seem slim, but if you don't ask you don't get.

Most people with clean licences have avoided points more by luck or knowing where the speed cameras are than because they are goody-two-shoeses who never break the law. However, they have the luxury of being able to get caught a few times before having to check out the bus timetables. If you need to avoid getting caught again, a sat nav with speed warnings can be a useful safety net for the times you are human and not perfect.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464489 · Replies: 5 · Views: 688

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 12:24


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As has been hinted at, but seemingly not specifically explained to the OP, he cannot be convicted solely on the evidence of the opinion of a single witness that he was speeding (s. 89(2) RTRA 1984). If there was only one occifer in the car (or one occifer giving evidence), then his opinion would need to be corroborated. If he can convince the court that you were either at a constant distance behind him while his speedo indicated that he was exceeding the speed limit, or that you were gaining on him while his speedo indicated that he was doing the speed limit then that could be enough.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464485 · Replies: 20 · Views: 1,903

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 08:25


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QUOTE (ranjitnarula @ Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 20:52) *
I have been sent a speeding offence which shows my car doing 35mph in a 30mph zone. The photograph has been sent to me with the notice.


You have not been sent a "speeding offence". You were probably sent a Notice of Intended Prosecution, which required you to name the driver under section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. Alternatively, you could have been sent something else. Whilst you might think that trying to guess what has actually happened because the person who wants us to spend our time giving them free advice can't be bothered to provide accurate details is a fun game, we can get bored of it easily.

QUOTE
CAn someone advise please what I should do?


Spend a little time with the relevant documents, and answer the questions you have been asked.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1464437 · Replies: 10 · Views: 978

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 20:01


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QUOTE (wwstwh @ Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:42) *
3) How long is this ban likely to be? I couldn't quite understand, is 6mo the minimum?


According to the legislation, 6 months is the minimum ban for totting (unless the court finds that such a ban would cause exceptional hardship), unless you have been banned in the previous 3 years, in which case the minimum is 12 months. However, in reality, 6 months is the ban (unless the court makes a finding of exceptional hardship).

If you were caught by a speed camera, it could easily be 8 or 9 months (from date of offence) before you go to court.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1463380 · Replies: 5 · Views: 680

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 21:50


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Whilst Mayhem007's use of the relevant terms is slightly unusual, I happen to know that he has addressed both.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1462822 · Replies: 57 · Views: 6,408

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 21:35


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The privilege against self-incrimination is generally held to be implicit in the right to a fair trial. Presumption of innocence is an explicit right in the erm, right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. So, obviously if the ECtHR had upheld an implicit right they would be perfectly happy for an explicit right to be breached.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1462817 · Replies: 19 · Views: 854

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 20:25


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QUOTE (BA1N @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:46) *
so basically im ****** then


Only if "the Rookie" is working as a fixed penalty clerk...
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1462314 · Replies: 8 · Views: 1,185

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 19:38


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QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:26) *
The S172 request is specifically excluded from "right to remain silent"
Doesn't the Forum have an article somewhere explaining why this has been ruled not to be a breach of human rights ?


Would that be the judgment of the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Right in the case of O'Halloran and Francis v the UK - the majority verdict of which said "Lord Bingham's judgment in Brown v Stott - what he said" as opposed to the 2 dissenting judgments which were very well set out, and the almost dissenting but not quite judgment which said that it would be a breach of the motorist's human rights, but motorists don't have human rights?
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1462309 · Replies: 19 · Views: 854

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 19:27


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QUOTE (typefish @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:19) *
Are there any other offences out there that result on a charge of PCoJ if someone chooses to not pay a [private] third party company for the privilege of sitting in a room with other willing occupants - even if what they were doing at the time was not an offence?


Presumably the point that you are seeking to make is that we perhaps ought to be aware of the apparent irony that many motorists openly avoid prosecution by paying private companies for speed awareness courses, which have no basis in law, and that the police take a £35 cut from them, but when a motorist seeks to avoid liability for his crimes using his own scam, not endorsed by the police and not funding 'jobs for the boys', then he is a serious criminal?

I would however like to believe that no matter how fundamentally corrupt I might consider the application of speed awareness courses to be, the police's view was that the motorist in this case perverted the course of justice, rather than that the cheeky sod tried to diddle them out of 'their' £35. Also, taking your post as it was written, motorists are entitled not to pay the 'bribe' requested by the police, but if they do not take the course they are liable to be processed on a manner with actual basis in law, such as an offer of a fixed penalty or prosecution for the motoring offence.
  Forum: News / Press Articles · Post Preview: #1462305 · Replies: 89 · Views: 11,159

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 19:39


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QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 09:18) *
could I ask for proof that NIP was originally sent out within 14 days?


You can ask for anything. However, you cannot simply put the prosecution to proof that a NIP was served - the requirement to serve a NIP is deemed to have been complied with unless the contrary is proven.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461542 · Replies: 35 · Views: 3,115

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 20:19


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QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 16:21) *
You are already being charged with a lower level offence, it could have been permitting driving with no insurance, which carries a large fine and 6 points.


Assuming that is accepted as fact that he sold the car, how could he permit driving a car which he had no legal or physical control over?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460751 · Replies: 10 · Views: 1,147

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