PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Driving in a cycle lane, Driving in a cycle lane
TheFonz12
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 61
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
From: London
Member No.: 54,553



Dear all, I received a letter from the police saying that they are investigating a potential offence: Driving in a cycle lane.
They said that they will let me know if they will go ahead or not.
In the mean time they asked me to supply the information on who was the driver at that time, saying that it is an offence to fail to supply such information.

I remember that I was approached by a cyclist at the time and he told me that he had me driving in the cycle lane on his GoPro and that he was going to report me to the police.

My three questions are:
1) can the police give me a ticket using evidence based on some private camera?
2) am I really obliged to provide the information on who was driving the bike at the time?
3) what is the worst case scenario? Do they give points for driving in a cycle lane?

Thank you as usual for your help on this matter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 18)
Advertisement
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
ohnoes
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:42
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 288
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Member No.: 83,810



QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35) *
Dear all, I received a letter from the police saying that they are investigating a potential offence: Driving in a cycle lane.
They said that they will let me know if they will go ahead or not.
In the mean time they asked me to supply the information on who was the driver at that time, saying that it is an offence to fail to supply such information.

I remember that I was approached by a cyclist at the time and he told me that he had me driving in the cycle lane on his GoPro and that he was going to report me to the police.

My three questions are:
1) can the police give me a ticket using evidence based on some private camera?
2) am I really obliged to provide the information on who was driving the bike at the time?
3) what is the worst case scenario? Do they give points for driving in a cycle lane?

Thank you as usual for your help on this matter.


1) Yes- the witness makes a sworn statement and their video evidence is exhibited as any other piece of evidence would be, and they'll be called to court if it gets to that stage. Some forces actively encourage members of the public to send in head cam and dash cam footage for prosecutions.

2) If you have a S172 request to identify the driver from the police then yes you have to provide this information. If you do not, then you will be charged with failure to furnish which in itself is an offence with quite a large penalty. Have you got a copy of the letter you've received and can you post it with your personal details redacted so forum can confirm?

3) Best case scenario, nothing happens. Somewhere in the middle you might get an offer of an educational course or a fixed penalty. Right down at the worst case scenario you might have to go to court. It depends what offence police are going to report you for.

Any further details about this incident that you could shed light on?

This post has been edited by ohnoes: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:43


--------------------
PCNs sucessfully contested with the help of this forum:
Newham 1/1
Enfield 1/1
Hackney 3/4
Ealing 0/1
LCC 1/1
CoL 1/1

PPC successfully contested with the help of this forum:
UKPC 1/1
TPS 1/1
ECP 0/1

Overall success rate getting tickets overturned: 75%
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 11:37
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



post a GSV of the location


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 13:31
Post #4


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (ohnoes @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:42) *
QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35) *

My three questions are:
1) can the police give me a ticket using evidence based on some private camera?
:
:


1) Yes- the witness makes a sworn statement and their video evidence is exhibited as any other piece of evidence would be, and they'll be called to court if it gets to that stage. Some forces actively encourage members of the public to send in head cam and dash cam footage for prosecutions.

Nextbase even provide a portal for anyone to upload camera footage and provide a witness statement which are then passed on to the relevant police force (in England and Wales).


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NeverMind
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 14:20
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 521
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
From: England
Member No.: 50,387



QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35) *
2) am I really obliged to provide the information on who was driving the bike at the time?


typo, or were you on a motorbike?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 14:49
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 14:20) *
QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35) *
2) am I really obliged to provide the information on who was driving the bike at the time?


typo, or were you on a motorbike?


Surely if he were on a push bike he would not be facing potential action for driving/riding in a cycle lane. Furthermore, how could he have received a S172 notice?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NeverMind
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 15:31
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 521
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
From: England
Member No.: 50,387



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 14:49) *
Surely if he were on a push bike he would not be facing potential action for driving/riding in a cycle lane. Furthermore, how could he have received a S172 notice?


Trying to clarify whether he was in a car or on a motorbike ... not that it makes much difference, I guess, but there are some cycle lanes (usually cycle and bus lanes) that motorbikes can use.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
morrisman
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 15:37
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 622
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,668



QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 15:31) *
Trying to clarify whether he was in a car or on a motorbike ... not that it makes much difference, I guess, but there are some cycle lanes (usually cycle and bus lanes) that motorbikes can use.

Or
There are some cycle bus lanes that motorbikes and push bikes can use. Motorbikes are not allowed in mandatory cycle lanes (solid white lines)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 15:39
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,200
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Exceptions for being in a cycle lane (marked with a solid white line) are to park (permitted since TSRGD 2016) and to pass a stationary vehicle. Do either apply?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheFonz12
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 16:49
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 61
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
From: London
Member No.: 54,553



QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 14:20) *
QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 09:35) *
2) am I really obliged to provide the information on who was driving the bike at the time?


typo, or were you on a motorbike?


Yes motorcycle
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheFonz12
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:05
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 61
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
From: London
Member No.: 54,553



So, I was on a motorcycle and please find below copy of the letter I received from the police:

https://flic.kr/p/2iypim2

https://flic.kr/p/2iyo53V

I called the police asking if the video taken from a personal GoPro can be admitted as proof for prosecution and this is the reply I received:


'With regards to your recent online form submission

The majority of road related traffic offences state that an officer in uniform must witness on the date and time specified. As this is the case it would be unlikely that any pictures of this nature could be used for prosecution currently.
Kind Regards,'


the line separating the cycle lane was solid white.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:36
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:05) *
I called the police asking if the video taken from a personal GoPro can be admitted as proof for prosecution and this is the reply I received:


'With regards to your recent online form submission

The majority of road related traffic offences state that an officer in uniform must witness on the date and time specified. As this is the case it would be unlikely that any pictures of this nature could be used for prosecution currently.
Kind Regards,'

Oh look, the police spouting bullshit, never seen that before. The answer is incorrect.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:39
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



From what they say they have no evidence which they (for some unknown reason) consider as suitable to support a prosecution. You must nonetheless still respond to the request for driver's details (or you commit a separate offence which carries six points). Be interesting to see what they do after that.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:40
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:49
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:39) *
From what they say they have no evidence which they (for some unknown reason) consider as suitable to support a prosecution.

Generic question. Generic (wrong) answer. (I believe the OP posed a question via an online Police form - not specifically in regards to their circumstances)

It doesn't help the OP.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:52


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:52
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:39) *
Be interesting to see what they do after that.


They will screech, "He's not the Fonz, he's a very naughty boy!"



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ohnoes
post Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 21:46
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 288
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Member No.: 83,810



QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:05) *
So, I was on a motorcycle and please find below copy of the letter I received from the police:

https://flic.kr/p/2iypim2

https://flic.kr/p/2iyo53V


This is a S172 request to name the driver.
You must do this as failure to do so is an offence in itself.

At this point all you can do is name the driver and see what they come back with.
The reply you got regarding a prosecution not being admissible based on gopro/dashcam footage is incorrect.


--------------------
PCNs sucessfully contested with the help of this forum:
Newham 1/1
Enfield 1/1
Hackney 3/4
Ealing 0/1
LCC 1/1
CoL 1/1

PPC successfully contested with the help of this forum:
UKPC 1/1
TPS 1/1
ECP 0/1

Overall success rate getting tickets overturned: 75%
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Colin_S
post Fri, 28 Feb 2020 - 12:45
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,321



Going off topic a tad but the S172 form appears to require the signature of the driver without making it clear that the signature would only be required if the addressee was also the driver. Unless there was a covering letter to explain precisely how the form is to be completed it's no surprise these sometimes get handed direct to the driver when the registered keeper is not the driver at the time of the offence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
T.T.D
post Sat, 29 Feb 2020 - 01:49
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 21 Oct 2019
Member No.: 106,274



QUOTE (TheFonz12 @ Thu, 27 Feb 2020 - 20:05) *
So, I was on a motorcycle and please find below copy of the letter I received from the police:

https://flic.kr/p/2iypim2

https://flic.kr/p/2iyo53V

I called the police asking if the video taken from a personal GoPro can be admitted as proof for prosecution and this is the reply I received:


'With regards to your recent online form submission

The majority of road related traffic offences state that an officer in uniform must witness on the date and time specified. As this is the case it would be unlikely that any pictures of this nature could be used for prosecution currently.
Kind Regards,'


the line separating the cycle lane was solid white.
i Nearly farted laughing so hard...must admit a little wee came out. Call the press immediately non uniformed constables wearing body cams should hand them in for uniform constables use right now as any captured footage is unlikely to go ahead with any prosecutions.
“The majority of road related traffic offences” legislation has royalty screwed over covert operations and prosecutors as they can’t be witnesses to a crime or minor traffic offence as they’re not in uniform with or without a body cam to catch such infractions.

You’ll also note I say constables/constable a lot because I hate the term officer in reference to a constable, police have ranks here in the UK and Officer isn’t one in my eyes.

Yes dashcam helmet cam pedestrian cam go proCam drone cam helicopter Cam street cctv bus cam plane cam peeping toms cam webcam spy cam and borescope cams speed cams phone cameras that catch footage of a traffic offence can be used as evidence. It would be down to the judge to decide if it were admissible which it will be as if it’s pertinent and the guts of a prosecution case or defense case it will
Be allowed.

This post has been edited by T.T.D: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 - 01:52
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 1 Mar 2020 - 16:30
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Colin_S @ Fri, 28 Feb 2020 - 12:45) *
Going off topic a tad but the S172 form appears to require the signature of the driver without making it clear that the signature would only be required if the addressee was also the driver.

I disagree, the person to whom the form is addressed signs on the first signature line, and only if they were also the driver, they sign the second signature line, it seems pretty self-evident to me.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 11:49
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here