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FightBack Forums _ Speeding and other Criminal Offences _ NIP for 75 in a van

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 08:13
Post #1320991

Thank you to everyone for their answers and help - you know the saying it never rains, it pours?

Got home last night and had another NIP for doing 75 in a 70......itself not unusual but it was actually on the day I should of turned up to my Court date and I was in a Hired Van - part of my work "emergency".

So the NIP's finally got to me - speeding at 5:10PM. The only thing is the van broke down at 1PM and went into get home mode (limp home) and wouldn't do more than 60mph !!

I reported this to my work, who called the Van garage, I coached the van home with no power, and the following day it went into the workshop and a major fault was found.

I've spoken to the garage and the mechanic has no problem doing me a letter stating that the vehicle would not physically be able to do 75mph at that time - I also took a photo of all the warning lights on the dash at the time as I emailed them to the garage?

So how the hell have I been clocked at 75mph and what do I do? The NIP has a spelling mistake on my surname but I'm assuming this is insignificant due to this "slip" rule?

I'm really in the wars at the moment aren't I? Thanks in anticipation.

Posted by: BaggieBoy Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 08:30
Post #1320994

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 09:13) *
Got home last night and had another NIP for doing 75 in a 70

Not saying I don't believe you but 75 in a 70 is below the normal threshold for prosecution (79). Is the speed limit perhaps lower than you think (60) due to the van?

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 08:45
Post #1320996

Thanks for the reply BaggieBoy

it may because of the van but also the road varies between single and dual carriageway (3 miles of one, 3 miles of the other etc.) so I'm wondering if its on a stretch of the single?

Regardless the van just wouldn't do this speed in limp mode, I couldn't overtake anyone, I struggled pulling out of junctions into fast traffic etc. it was a nightmare to drive and I was 150 miles from home.

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 09:02
Post #1320999

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 09:13) *
Got home last night and had another NIP for doing 75 in a 70......itself not unusual but it was actually on the day I should of turned up to my Court date and I was in a Hired Van - part of my work "emergency".

I've spoken to the garage and the mechanic has no problem doing me a letter stating that the vehicle would not physically be able to do 75mph at that time - I also took a photo of all the warning lights on the dash at the time as I emailed them to the garage?

It's all very nice having such a letter but one suspects they have evidence from an approved device to the contrary. Do you know what sort of camera it was? (Or the location?)

And it won't be for 75 in a 70 as already noted. More likely a 60 (either by road or type of vehicle) - If so, 75 is the upper limit for a course.

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 09:13) *
So how the hell have I been clocked at 75mph and what do I do? The NIP has a spelling mistake on my surname but I'm assuming this is insignificant due to this "slip" rule?

Assuming you are not the registered keeper then your details would have been provided manually and perhaps someone else has misspelt your name whilst doing so. But it's not going to give you a defence.

This probably deserves being split into a new thread to avoid confusion with the original. (Hit !Report and ask a mod nicely if they don't spot)

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 10:30
Post #1321013

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 09:13) *
The NIP has a spelling mistake on my surname but I'm assuming this is insignificant due to this "slip" rule?

It can't be corrected under the 'slip rule' no, that part of the magistrates court act only applies to court produced paperwork, however it doesn't need correcting, you know its for you.

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 10:40
Post #1321015

Thanks for the replies everyone - so where do I go from here? It's just impossible that I was doing 75?

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 10:52
Post #1321019

I would write and ask for 'photo's to help confirm the drivers identity' or similar, this will give you a better idea of what happened, you use that ruse as you aren't entitled to see evidence at this stage. It may or may not help.

I presume the van is not car derived so even on a dual carriageway it would have a 60 limit? The van is a.......?

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 11:26
Post #1321028

Ask for the photo as above.

Where was the camera?

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 11:59
Post #1321040

Sorry gents I do not know where the camera was or what type - if I send a letter off and ask will the 28 day return period for the NIP still keep running?

Posted by: mynamegoesinhere Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 12:06
Post #1321043

Could it have been on a downhill stretch where it could have got up to that speed despite being in GMH mode?

Posted by: peterguk Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 12:16
Post #1321047

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 12:59) *
Sorry gents I do not know where the camera was or what type - if I send a letter off and ask will the 28 day return period for the NIP still keep running?


Yes. The 28 day period does not extend.

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 12:17
Post #1321048

Ok, the location given...? (Road/junction etc)

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 12:50
Post #1321060

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 11:52) *
I presume the van is not car derived so even on a dual carriageway it would have a 60 limit? The van is a.......?

???

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 14:28
Post #1321091

Sorry The Rookie - its a ford transit LWB custom 2.0 diesel

Mynamegoesinhere - no pretty much flat for 10 miles or so along that stretch - will get exact position/junction etc when I get home and take another look.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 14:44
Post #1321093

So speed limit is 60 on a dual carriageway, hence why a recorded 75 justified a NIP.

Could you complete the NIP wizard and have the output added to the thread?

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 09:26
Post #1322475

Hello again everyone

The Rookie - The NIP Wizard stated that I hadn't answered enough questions for a post to the Forum?? Here's what I answered which is all correct:

Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

I now understand it was on a dual-carriageway but the max speed for the Van was 60mph - I have to admit I thought it was 70 mph so this is a learning experience for me finding out that its only 60 but I now understand the Law totally.

However, that doesn't negate the fact that the Van was only capable of doing 60 mph at the time. No downhill stretches involved.

I think that the camera was on a bridge (mobile) overlooking the carriageway - I have now received the photos and have been given until 23/10 to name the driver.

The photo does NOT identify me as the driver, it's poor and the reflection on the windscreen just means you cant actually see me properly at all.

Any thoughts on next steps would be gratefully received.

Posted by: Jlc Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 09:34
Post #1322478

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 10:26) *
I think that the camera was on a bridge (mobile) overlooking the carriageway - I have now received the photos and have been given until 23/10 to name the driver.

Ok, and the photo confirms the speed?

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 10:26) *
The photo does NOT identify me as the driver, it's poor and the reflection on the windscreen just means you cant actually see me properly at all.

Nor does it have to. The photo is to identify the vehicle and the alleged offence only. If you know who was driving then they should be named - don't be tempted to think this provides any 'defence'.

Posted by: disgrunt Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 10:05
Post #1322488

Can I just ask whether you are certain it was you driving at the time. I'm thinking there are 2 possibilities that you should check out because with your other thread you are looking at a totting ban if I recall correctly.

Is the location close to the hire centre, could you have returned the van and a hire company employee taken it for a quick spin up the road to check it out?
Hire firms often have cars/vans with sequential plates, could you have had one either side and the hire company misread the original NIP when naming you?


Probably both long shots but you never know?

Posted by: samthecat Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 10:11
Post #1322489

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 5 Oct 2017 - 09:13) *
I reported this to my work, who called the Van garage, I coached the van home with no power, and the following day it went into the workshop and a major fault was found.



QUOTE (disgrunt @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 11:05) *
Can I just ask whether you are certain it was you driving at the time. I'm thinking there are 2 possibilities that you should check out because with your other thread you are looking at a totting ban if I recall correctly.


Seems the OP was the only one driving on the day in question. Presumably the OP has checked the VRM on the supplied photographs and its the correct vehicle.

Posted by: Logician Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 11:38
Post #1322504

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 10:26) *
...........the Van was only capable of doing 60 mph at the time. No downhill stretches involved. I think that the camera was on a bridge (mobile) overlooking the carriageway - I have now received the photos and have been given until 23/10 to name the driver. The photo does NOT identify me as the driver, it's poor and the reflection on the windscreen just means you cant actually see me properly at all. Any thoughts on next steps would be gratefully received.


Does the photo confirm the speed?


Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 12:02
Post #1322511

The NIP wizard works and doesn't say you haven't answered enough questions if you press the additional questions button and answer the rest of them......

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 13:50
Post #1322842

Disgrunt - the Van is our company vehicle, not hired, we had to hire one the day after as from 1pm that day it was in limp home mode. I was over 150 miles from home location. I understand what you are saying (and appreciate it) but I think that's a no go.

Samthecat and logician - I haven't checked the Speed on the photo or the VRM and the van has just been sold as it was too much trouble so we have a new one. I could get the VRM and I simply forgot to bring the photo with me to work today to check. Will do this tomorrow thanks.

The Rookie - I noticed the "additional questions" now but need the NIP to fill it in correctly, again will do tomorrow.

Many thanks and appreciation to all.

Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 14:42
Post #1322857

OK the photo does not say the speed anywhere on it?

There are 2 photos - neither show speed, one is so poor registration is not legible, other is poor registration is just readable but the D’s could be mistaken for B’s?

Attached photos

 

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:11
Post #1322862

They are stills from the video - annoyingly, it appears they've sent stills after the speed has timed out - presumably because the pictures have been supplied to assist in identifying the driver.

But seems sufficient to confirm whether it was the vehicle in question.

Posted by: Logician Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:48
Post #1322871

QUOTE (cowgirl1512 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:42) *
OK the photo does not say the speed anywhere on it? There are 2 photos - neither show speed, one is so poor registration is not legible, other is poor registration is just readable but the D’s could be mistaken for B’s? Attached photos


Perhaps they could, but they weren't, were they? They were read as D's and that is why the NIP reached you.

The only time I was driving a vehicle that went into limp mode, I found that if I stopped it drove apparently normally for a period of time before going back into limp mode. I note that you called your work and then coaxed the van back, if the same thing happened to you it might have been driving normally at that particular time. Anyway I think that a court faced with a speed reading made by a trained operator with an approved device are likely to accept that speed despite a letter from your mechanic, so I would not recommend taking this to court.


Posted by: cowgirl1512 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:08
Post #1322879

Logician - the only time a vehicle would resume normally and cancel limp home mode is if it was an intermittent fault. In my case a sensor failed permanently - the mechanic had fitted a “ generic” sensor in the vehicle only the week earlier.

He admitted he should have fitted an OEM sensor, and he fitted one the following day, and didn’t charge us the extra money (double the cost) for the sensor or any Labour. You cannot perform a rolling reset on this part as the ECU needs a diagnostic device plugged in to do this.

Look - the vehicle wouldn’t do more than 60 - I was getting people blowing their horns at me all that afternoon for taking a lifetime to get to 30? It’s quite simple that I refuse to be prosecuted for something I simply didn’t do.

And a qualified mechanic takes 3 years to train - a speed camera operator? A weeks course at best?

Technology fails - that’s why I’m here in this position. I know you’re trying to help and I thank you, but the facts are the facts I’m not trying to bull**** the court or anyone else.

Ooh- just complicate matters I’m a Snowboard Instructor and I’m off to Andorra shortly until May 2018 - how will that work?

Posted by: disgrunt Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:27
Post #1322883

I believe your story and can see why you'd not want to accept a penalty when you are innocent. Can I point out a potential issue though : you appear to be in the outside lane, "the fast lane".

The pragmatic thing to do would be accept a course if offered, not sure it would be though, and think of all the times you were speeding and didn't get caught.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:35
Post #1322887

Whether to accept a course or fixed penalty or take the matter to court is entirely a matter for you. All we can do is advise you on the prospects of success and the pitfalls of going to court. Lose at court and the prosecution will ask for costs of £620 plus the costs of any expert they may have brought in. The fine will also be income related rather than fixed at £100.

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