Bus lane ticket - think I can win the appeal? Options

[Claygate1]

Hi,

I received a fine for driving in a bus lane (didn’t realise it was!) and reading up online I think I can appeal it for the following reasons:

It didn’t have bus lane clearly marked (that I can see- the photographic evidence provided doesn’t show this either)
It wasn’t a different colour to the rest of the road
You get 20m or 5 car lengths grace and on the video I’m only shown passing 3

I have attached photographic evidence - what do you guys think? I want to appeal it tonight but want to know if I’ve got a good chance or not?

New to this forum so sorry if I’ve got anything wrong

Thanks!










What chance do people think I have of winning an appeal ?

This is my draft :

Good Evening,

I am challenging this parking fine as I believe it has been issued unfairly as the road markings were unclear.

The bus lane is supposed to have “BUS LANE” marked clearly, and the bus lane should be a different colour to the rest of the road. Neither of this applied to this bus lane and I was driving in an unfamiliar area so whilst I was being cautious and aware of my surroundings I don’t think this bus lane was marked clearly enough. I have never been fined for driving in a bus lane prior to this and this was a genuine mistake.

However, reading online I can also see that cars are allowed a grace of 20m or up to 5 car lengths and from the video evidence you have provided I have only passed 3 car lengths.

It is for the reasons given above that I would ask you to cancel this penalty charge notice.

This post has been edited by Claygate1: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 19:27

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[Neil B]

Reason to change lanes early was ---?

[Claygate1]

I was turning left at the end of the road and to me this left lane looked clear (not a bus lane) so I didn’t see any reason not to.

I’m reading up on previous cases on this particular bus lane and the council haven’t quoted the exact bus lane times on my penalty notice. It appears there may be several bus lanes in this road with differing times which may also be a point of appeal I believe ?

Below is an extract :


The Appellant's case is that the road markings present at the location are inadequate and would fail to alert a reasonable motorist that his vehicle was in a bus lane. He refereed me to be relevant parts of the Traffic Signs (Amendment) (No.2) Regulations and General Directions 2011, and the pertinent points in Chapters 3 and 5 of the Traffic Signs Manuals. I have considered the evidence in this case and watched the CCTV clip a number of times and I find the Appellant's case to be stronger than that of the Authority's and that this Penalty Charge Notice cannot be upheld for the following reasons: First, I find that the taper leading up to the bus lane is 60% shorter than it should be and that this is less than the substantial requirement; accordingly I find it to be inadequate. Second, I find that the bus lane signs down the majority of Cambridge Road from New Malden and from Cambridge Road towards Kingston have different operating times; this can be very confusing for motorists. The Traffic Signs Manual recommend that when there is more than one bus lane a long a particular length of road or within the same geographical area, the times of operation should be consistent, where possible to avoid driver confusion. There is no explanation from the Authority for these different operating times, and they were on notice in relation to this point. Third, having watched the CCTV footage there is very little to indicate that the bus lane has continued for a short distance after the bus stop'. Whilst I have amended some typographical errors in relation to my second finding in the case decided on 5 November 2014 (case number 2140404428) I can see no reason to alter my decision in this almost identical case. This appeal is allowed.

[Neil B]

I was turning left at the end of the road and to me this left lane looked clear (not a bus lane) so I didn’t see any reason not to.

I'll be direct.
I asked because, ultimately, an adjudicator might ask the same.
If you gave the same answer and the adjudicator looked at Streetview, what would be their reaction? I see no left turn for some
considerable distance.

Wait to see others' opinions.

[Claygate1]

Ok thanks for the honesty.

Also a minor point but on my penalty charge notice the date is “12/09/2018” and on the enforcement notice it says “on 13/09/2018 a penalty charge notice was issued by the council with respect to the above vehicle for the following alleged contravention 34J being in a bus lane”

I know we should look out for mistakes, but am I clutching at straws here ?

[Incandescent]

You are clutching at straws.
Wins for bus lane contraventions tend to succeed on inadequate/missing signage. There is no 20 metre "rule", just a convention that adjudicators tend to adhere to when considering a de minimis appeal (" I only drove a short distance in the bus lane"). Unfortunatlely councils don't recognise de minimis, so any appeal on this basis will end up at adjudication with the full penalty at risk.

[Claygate1]

The full penalty is already at risk, £130 if I don’t pay it then it will increase to £195. Do you think I should pu the £130 and not appeal then?

[stamfordman]

If you have lost the discount and have an enforcement notice then there is nothing to lose by appealing. Did you not appeal the PCN?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 21:51

[Claygate1]

No - I meant to appeal it and stupidly never got round to it in time. Completely my own fault!

[stamfordman]

Appeal it and grovel a bit and they may reoffer the discount. They may do so as if not they will have to prepare evidence for the adjudicator.

[hcandersen]

It's not a case of winning or losing because at this stage you're not limited to only 2 outcomes, you haven't even put your argument to them.

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...ment-process#en

For all you know you could be pushing at an open door - you wouldn't be though.

They only see what's in the video and presume signage and no legitimate reason for being in the bus lane.

So, give them your account.

Only if they rejected your reps would you have to consider whether to carry on.

And we haven't seen the PCN so cannot even comment on compliance.

I'm worried because the photos are dated August which could imply that you're nearly out of time to make reps.

Docs, dates, data.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 08:03

[cp8759]

Upload all the paperwork and post a link to the location on Google Street View.