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Paid, got receipt then received charge notice.
Spidey5
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:19
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Hi all, happy newish year,

On 7th November the London borough of WF filmed me turning right into a side street by bypassing a couple of cars in stationary traffic where there was also a bollard. Totally safe but arguably a fair catch, and I paid the PCN on the last day of the 14 day grace period and received a receipt. I thought no more of it until this week I have received a "charge certificate" stating that I haven't been in touch to pay or make representations and now the £65 has risen to £195. Checking the receipt it has a completely different reference number to the PCN and the PCN and Charge notice have the same ref number. I must have entered the right one to access to the payment site so what on earth has happened and what can I do about it?

There are no options at all to actually talk to a person and NSL who administer this stuff are not replying to my emails (email address given on PCN)

I have until 16th January to pay up before they "might" refer to county court.

Thank you in advance.
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post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:19
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TigerRob
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:29
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Let others correct me if I get this wrong, but absence any other communications from the authority then the next step in the process will be that the authority register the debt with TEC and once this is done they will issue an "order for recovery' (OfR).

Once you receive the OfR you make a Witness Statement to TEC stating that "You had paid the penalty charge" (If I understand correctly this is a tick-box exercise), and then the PCN will be referred to an adjudicator for resolution.

The process is here: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...ment-process#cc

Questions:
(1) Are you sure that there is only one PCN in play. I.e. could you have paid one and there still be a second that has now reached CC stage?
(2) Is the address on the charge Certificate correct - the council will use the same address for the OfR and you don't want to miss that one.

I'd also continue to reach the authority to discuss the situation outside the process.

Rob.

This post has been edited by TigerRob: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:30
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stamfordman
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:33
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Interesting though that the moving traffic process doesn't include paying it as a declaration:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

is this is a mistake on the site?

OP - have the funds been debited from your account?
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TigerRob
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:45
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For the OPs benefit - the process that Stamfordman links to (moving traffic) is the one that applies to you - the process I linked was for PCNs affixed to vehicles.

It appears that 'I already paid' is NOT an option for a PE3.

It appears that the only recourse is dialog with the authority.

This post has been edited by TigerRob: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 15:51
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TigerRob
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:08
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You also somehow missed the NTO, which should have been sent to the same address as the CC.

Is there somewhere to log on the the WF website and see the status of the PCN and possibly a log of the actions that have been taken on which dates?
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Spidey5
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:14
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You're right, there are TWO and they are 15 minutes apart, I was going in circles trying to park.
Ok, so can they charge me twice within 15 minutes!?

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TigerRob
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:21
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QUOTE (Spidey5 @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:14) *
Ok, so can they charge me twice within 15 minutes!?


Possibly or possibly not, depending on exact circumstances. But right now that's irrelevant.

You have PCN1 which you have paid.

You have PCN2 that you received but have not paid or challenged (and forgive me, as this is a moving traffic contravention the PCN is the NTO, so you have received the NtO).

You're now at CC stage with PCN2 and the only way you have to challenge is to submit a SD at the OfR stage. You can only do that for these reasons:
- You did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice in question; or
- You made representations to the Enforcement Authority concerned but did not receive a Notice of Rejection from that authority; or
- You appealed to the adjudicator against the rejection by the Enforcement Authority of your representations but had no response to the appeal

If none of those apply, the your *only* option is to pay the £195. At least that's how I see it.
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Spidey5
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:28
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The pictures are almost identical on the two offences, my car is in EXACTLY the same position and the other traffic has moved about two cars. I'll have to pay GAHHHHH.
Thank you for pointing out the most obvious explanation that didn't even occur to me. What a lesson.
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TigerRob
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:31
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You're not in a rush (IIRC you have 14 days from the date of service of the CC to pay). Wait for a bit and see if anyone else has any input before you shell out.

Edited to change 28 days to 14 days. Make sure you don't miss the deadline for paying the CC.

This post has been edited by TigerRob: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 16:40
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cp8759
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 19:28
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This is a very unfortunate set of circumstances but the legalistic answer is that you should have checked the PCN numbers carefully. Unfortunately if the situation is simply that you received the 2nd PCN and for whatever reason (innocent mistake as it may be) you did nothing about it, the only way forward is to the pay CC.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Spidey5
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 16:04
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Thanks all, I'll pay it. And learn. sleep.gif

Thanks all, I'll pay it. And learn. sleep.gif
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