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Driving against direction shown
MMmain4
post Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 21:39
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Hi all,

Hope all is well for you guys.

I have this issue I am basically ready to pay for but I came upon this website just now and after reading a few stories i thought I'd try posting mine and see what you think.

I was parked on a one way road and I drove off against the direction of the road up to the end of the road, which was very minimal - around 50 meters.
I honestly forgot this was one way road when I came back to my car as it was my first time on this road.

I also foolishly informally appealed the PCN before researching for forums like this one.

I appealed the PCN on grounds of lack of signage from where I was parked up to the end of the road. My appeal was rejected stating that I failed to see a blue sign with an arrow indicating direction - but the blue sign was facing the other way so how could i see it? I've uploaded a zoomed in picture from the rejection letter for that.
There was also a blue sign on the side of a building but it's impossible to see when driving unless you look 90 degrees sideways and take your eyes off the road. Because that sign also isn't facing the road - rather it faces another road joining this one. Also the sign wasn't lit at night.

Anyway I am attaching the pictures of the PCN, my appeal and the rejection letter. Also the google map link from where i was parked.

Let me know if I should appeal this at a tribunal or just pay the fine. smile.gif

http://i66.tinypic.com/21jy41u.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/ml2fqs.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/os5xc7.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/xc19s.jpg

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B...33;4d-0.0733552

Thanks
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post Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 21:39
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:44
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QUOTE (MMmain4 @ Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 19:34) *
The only letter I have from London Tribunals states that my case "...will come into the list for decision on 27th of August. The actual date on which it will be considered by an Adjudicator depends on the number of appeals awaiting decision. "

The deadline for all evidence is 22nd of August.



Ok dont let the thread die I have a few thoughts but cannot spend much time til next weekend


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MMmain4
post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 20:40
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Just giving a bump to keep the thread alive.

Does anyone have any advice in the meantime perhaps please?
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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 15:19
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QUOTE (MMmain4 @ Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 21:40) *
Just giving a bump to keep the thread alive.

Does anyone have any advice in the meantime perhaps please?

Please confirm two things:

1) The date of the first email or letter you received from the tribunal telling you about the case.
2) The date of the council letter with all the evidence.


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MMmain4
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 20:48
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 16:19) *
QUOTE (MMmain4 @ Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 21:40) *
Just giving a bump to keep the thread alive.

Does anyone have any advice in the meantime perhaps please?

Please confirm two things:

1) The date of the first email or letter you received from the tribunal telling you about the case.
2) The date of the council letter with all the evidence.


Hi

Thanks for the reply - here it is
1a) 29th July - submitted my appeal to London Tribunals, received a confirmation email
1b) 31st of July - received a letter from London Tribunals with confirmation and case details
2) 1st of August is the date of council letter, i probably physically received the letter on the 3rd (can't recall that well)

Thanks
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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 08:41
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Well it looks like they turned around the evidence in record time. Just wait for PMB, I've never known him to commit to a case and not deliver.


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MMmain4
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 20:50
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Bumb for PMB smile.gif
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 20:56
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QUOTE (MMmain4 @ Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 21:50) *
Bumb for PMB smile.gif


you are not forgotten I will have time in the morning


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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 14:45
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My computer is really playing up today so have t do things the old fashioned way.


Add all the case identification details then

I make this further submission in response to the council case summary


1:- it is the councils case that I submitted my reason for driving in the direction as evidenced on CCTV, was that I was following my sat nav. Neither my representation to the council nor my appeal made this claim
My submission on this pi=oint being only that I set off from a parking spot driving ahead. by implication it may be inferred that I had entered the street in contravention of a no entry sign.

No white arrow on a blue sign would be visible to me . any along the road being parallel to the kerb and not facing oncoming traffic

The council seek to rely on the road marking, these are advisory only and it should be noted that there are direction arrows in both directions. This was not obvious to me but can be seen in the 1st and 2nd photograph in the council evidence pack


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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 15:49
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Take note of this case you can enter without passing a sign although you would still have passed a no entry at some point

219021308A

The appellant appeared before me today.
Two penalty charges formed the subject of this appeal this vehicle on the council's case on 25 and 27 February 2019 at Druid Street failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign.
The appellant raised the issue of signage he turning right into Druid Street from Gedling Place no signage being posted at that junction indicating that he could not do so.
I was satisfied on the council's images supplied at categories H and J and on an image shown to me by the appellant on his phone at the hearing that that was so.
The council's video footage of these incidents was taken from the front of the vehicle it thus not showing any signage the appellant may have passed.
I acknowledged the evidence of signage that was provided by the council but I could not be satisfied on the evidence before me that the appellant had contravened any such signage and I found for that reason that the contraventions had not been proved.


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MMmain4
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 21:31
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies PASTMYBEST!

I've copy/pasted/edited what you gave me on 1 page - please see the link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pOLcZBKrZ...uRWyG41NGQM8GGl
Let me know if there are any tweaks that I can do please.

Also is there more info on the case 219021308A? Not sure that the way I copy/pasted the case on the word file is going to be okay for the tribunal. I tried to find it online and I couldn't at all. It would be useful to submit a full case pdf I assume?

Anyway massive thanks smile.gif
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 22:06
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full details of the case. your draft looks fine also

Case reference
219021308A
Appellant
Don Weragala
Authority
London Borough of Southwark
VRM
EK58WMX

PCN Details
PCN
SO92546465
Contravention date
25 Feb 2019
Contravention time
19:25:00
Contravention location
Druid Street
Penalty amount
GBP 130.00
Contravention
Fail drive in direction shown by arrow - blue sign

Referral date


Decision Date
17 Aug 2019
Adjudicator
Andrew Harman
Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
The appellant appeared before me today.
Two penalty charges formed the subject of this appeal this vehicle on the council's case on 25 and 27 February 2019 at Druid Street failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign.
The appellant raised the issue of signage he turning right into Druid Street from Gedling Place no signage being posted at that junction indicating that he could not do so.
I was satisfied on the council's images supplied at categories H and J and on an image shown to me by the appellant on his phone at the hearing that that was so.
The council's video footage of these incidents was taken from the front of the vehicle it thus not showing any signage the appellant may have passed.
I acknowledged the evidence of signage that was provided by the council but I could not be satisfied on the evidence before me that the appellant had contravened any such signage and I found for that reason that the contraventions had not been proved.



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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 14:31
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2190288861
The Appellant attended the hearing in person.

The Authority's allegation as stated in the case summary is that the Appellant travelled in the wrong direction in Druid Street (towards Abbey Street).

The Appellant said that his vehicle was left in Druid Street by a garage. He went to pick it up on foot and he did not see any one way street signs.

The Notice of Rejection did not reflect the allegation or the representations. First, it argued that while the Appellant said that somebody was driving, he was responsible for the contravention even if the garage was in charge of the vehicle. This is not the point. The Appellant admitted that he was the driver. His point was that he was not aware that the vehicle was in a one way street because he did not put it there.

The case summary then went on to allege a prohibited left turn.

I do not understand the Authority's case at all. I allow the appeal.

I would also remind the Authority that if it submits CCTV evidence on line, the link should be uploaded as an item of evidence. It should not be left in the case summary.





Mick


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MMmain4
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 21:58
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Hi guys,

Thanks for the cases Mick & PMB!

I'll be uploading my things tomorrow as the deadline is 22nd.

Here's my final draft:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pOLcZBKrZ...uRWyG41NGQM8GGl

Do you think I need to include my case ref somewhere in the file? I didn't in the previous file.

Also I have this video of the road and i'm wondering if it's worth uploading it. Shows that there are no signs for me to see, also shows that white arrows don't appear in the middle of the road.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qiCvQs1zA...6t8x26S8_A-gkqE

Thanks smile.gif

This post has been edited by MMmain4: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 22:00
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cp8759
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 08:51
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I'm not sure the video helps to be honest.


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MMmain4
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 19:20
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Yeah I wasn't sure either, that's fine, I won't upload it. My previous evidence doesn't mention this video anyway so it'd be out of place.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 20:03
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QUOTE (MMmain4 @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 20:20) *
Yeah I wasn't sure either, that's fine, I won't upload it. My previous evidence doesn't mention this video anyway so it'd be out of place.


Just add a short sentence at the end pointing to the second ground in your reps to the council, doesn't have to go into any more detail but you don't want them to ignore it just in case


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