[NIP Wizard] NIP eventually turned up after going to Lease Co/Hire Co/Hirer/Driver |
[NIP Wizard] NIP eventually turned up after going to Lease Co/Hire Co/Hirer/Driver |
Fri, 18 Mar 2016 - 18:38
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - November 2015 Date of the NIP: - 108 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 110 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A45 London Rd WB Ryton Bridge,Ryton-on-Dunsmore. United Kingdom Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Driver of vehicle hired by ex-wife How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I exceeded the said speed limit travelling at 59 mph in a 50 mph zone,and was caught by speed camera. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:38:15 +0000 |
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Fri, 18 Mar 2016 - 18:38
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Fri, 18 Mar 2016 - 19:06
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Any questions?
I suggest you return the S.172 pronto, as there is often a limit of 4 months for completion of SACs. -------------------- |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 11:12
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
OK thanks Peter,not sure what any course of action of defence would be for this as I'm only clued up on PCN's I'm afraid.
Only thing I can ask at this moment is do I have a chance of defending this thing? Ta. |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 11:19
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Only thing I can ask at this moment is do I have a chance of defending this thing? 3 possible elements of a defence: 1. The signage is defective or traffic order - basically the limit is different (and the limit wasn't exceeded) 2. The car was not travelling at the alleged speed 3. There's an 'procedural error' in the paperwork (e.g. 1st NIP delivered after 14 days from the offence) Chances? Probably slim to none unless you know something we don't? As already noted, respond to the driver (s172) request as failure to do so would be a slum dunk offence carrying 6 points and large fine. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 12:55
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
OK thanks for the reality check :-)
Anywhere I can find information that will help me to spot a procedural impropriety in the paperwork at all? |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:00
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
OK thanks for the reality check :-) Anywhere I can find information that will help me to spot a procedural impropriety in the paperwork at all? Assuming the first NIP arrived within 14 days, and the NIPs contain a specfic location and mention of the offence, i doubt you'll find any issues. -------------------- |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:01
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
OK,looks like done and dusted here,I'm going on a course then lol.....
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:05
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
OK,looks like done and dusted here,I'm going on a course then lol..... Probably but a course may not be an option given the timing. There's around 4 month cut-off which you may not meet. (So would be 3 points £100). -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:20
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
They sent me the SAC paperwork so it's a 100 miles away so trying to maybe negotiate a closer centre would be my best option I guess.
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:25
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You should be able to sit a local course as part of national scheme.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 14:57
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
For info that limit is about as well signed as it can be, to be honest you almost certainly knew you were in a 50 limit (and realistically if you missed the signs should probably see an optician pronto.... if you can find one....)
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 23 Mar 2016 - 11:21
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
Thanks gents,will be biting the bullet!
Will try to find a closer centre. |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:04
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
Well,after some time Warwickshire Police have sent me an ultimatum-pay £100 fine and three points to be put on my licence,not a sniff of a speed awareness court at all!
I have seven days to reply,anyone with any suggestions how to open a defence at this point in the proceedings? |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:17
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Defence based on what?
Even if you have a defence you'll be presenting it in court absent a really compelling issue the Police will consider. What happened to the SAC? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:23
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
You got sent SAC info in post 9. What happened to it?
Do you have a defence? |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:34
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 17 May 2010 Member No.: 37,614 |
If you didn't take up the SAC offer, then the £100 & 3pts is the best it is going to get.
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:28
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#17
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
I have seven days to reply,anyone with any suggestions how to open a defence at this point in the proceedings? On the ordinary meaning of the words, to the extent that they can be said to have a specific meaning, you cannot "open a defence" at this point. If you want to defend the allegation, you ignore or reject the offer of a fixed penalty and wait for them to take you to court. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:51
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Indeed, but I hope you're not thinking the lack of (local?) awareness course offer forms any defence?
This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:52 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 16:58
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 784 Joined: 9 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,764 |
Indeed, but I hope you're not thinking the lack of (local?) awareness course offer forms any defence? Especially as the original course offer would have made it quite clear that as part of the National scheme you could have attended almost anywhere in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Looks like that boat has sailed due to your inaction. If they have given you 7 days to pay and submit your driving licence they have probably got a finger poised over the 'prosecute' button waiting for the allowed week to elapse. Only if both payment and endorsement has occurred and the notice is closed can a prosecution no longer be initiated. |
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Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 17:29
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 10 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,395 |
Sorry,on the original NIP it gave an SAC course as an option regarding how the offence could be dealt with after I sent back the paperwork.
They didn't give me the chance to do a course,they just want to hit me with a fine and three penalty points. Thought that was a bit harsh! So now I guess I have to start looking at some kind of defence or follow-up. Any suggestions? |
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