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Wrongly given fpn for littering, Fpn help when innocent
wrinkly_ninja
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 15:53
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Hi. My friend has pointed me here for some advice.
On Tuesday I was given an fpn by and environment enforcement officer for "littering" or more prcicely "dropping a cigarette butt". The reason I'm seeking advice is that this did not happen. I don't even smoke... Has anybody got any advice for me? My options appear to be pay fine, which I won't do as I didn't commit an offence or don't pay it and go to magistrates court to appeal. Does anyone have any successful experience of this and what did they do. In going to go to the Dr's to get medical back up in terms of no signs of smoking, as well as getting a smoking/nicotine test. I will ask for evidence of the "offence" which there isn't as i asked the guy if his camera caught it and he said no... This has completely enraged me. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 15:53
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misteral
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 16:08
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Not sure if this is the right forum.

Anyway, if you are completely innocent, and I'm not doubting you, never admit to something you didn't do.
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Neil B
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 19:34
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Can we see the FPN you were given please.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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wrinkly_ninja
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:11
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I'll try sort a pic out in a bit. Just got to blank personal info on it
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southpaw82
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:30
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There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN. Your story is that you didn’t discard the cigarette butt. If you opt for a court hearing then the council will have to prove to beyond a reasonable doubt that you did. Before the trial they would serve their evidence on you, which presumably will be a witness statement from the enforcement officer. Your job at trial will be to discredit his statement, by cross-examination and by introducing contrary evidence.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:48
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I have a feeling that a littering FPN is not default convict - in other words, if the OP does not pay it, it is up to the LA to prosecute, as opposed to FPNs under the RTOA where the penalty can simply be registered as a fine if not paid.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:50
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You may well be correct. In which case they may decide that there is insufficient evidence to proceed.


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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 00:09
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In London has this not become a decriminalized offence and appeal is to the E&TA
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Colin_S
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 09:58
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Local authorities are naming and shaming so another reason to contest the allegation.
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Neil B
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 10:38
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:30) *
There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN.

I was looking to refresh my memory on the recently implemented powers/legislation.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 13:21
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Did you drop something else?
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southpaw82
post Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:12
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 10:38) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:30) *
There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN.

I was looking to refresh my memory on the recently implemented powers/legislation.

Fair enough. It may be that I’m out of date.


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wrinkly_ninja
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 01:32
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 13:21) *
Did you drop something else?


Nope. Had nothing to drop...
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cp8759
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 02:19
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:48) *
I have a feeling that a littering FPN is not default convict - in other words, if the OP does not pay it, it is up to the LA to prosecute, as opposed to FPNs under the RTOA where the penalty can simply be registered as a fine if not paid.

That's correct, it's up the to LA to prosecute and in council areas where the EPA is enforced, these are amongst the most frequent proceedings brought by local authorities.

wrinkly_ninja: There is no appeal, you're presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you've never smoked (or haven't smoked for many years), it should be fairly easy to prove. Get as many witness statements as possible from people you know, maybe get your medical records (I think the NHS records if you're a smoker or not), if you really want to go to town you could go as far as getting receipts and/or a statement from wherever you usually get your groceries to say that you never buy cigarettes (that might be seen as using a sledge hammer to crack a nut, but you're trying to avoid a criminal conviction). As you only have to create a reasonable doubt that you might be innocent, I won't say it's a walk in the park but it should be possible to get an acquittal. Of course, if there's any CCTV in the area that would be the jackpot.

As southpaw82 has said, once you challenge it, they might not even bother pursuing it.


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KH_
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 16:27
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 02:19) *
<snip> maybe get your medical records (I think the NHS records if you're a smoker or not)


I know my doctor surgery records it, although they still have me as a smoker despite telling them numerous times I haven't smoked since early 2013.
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Mayhem007
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 10:51
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Normally records are changed from smoker to ex smoker. You can get an appointment with your surgeries nurse and they can carry out a co2 check. It takes about 3 to 4 weeks for your co2 levels to go down after a cessation of smoking. However, it will probably not prove that you did not have A cigarrette in the last 4 weeks. Nevertheless, a co2 check may help your defence, if needed.


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