ULEZ Appeal Rejection, Advice on appealing to the adjudicator |
ULEZ Appeal Rejection, Advice on appealing to the adjudicator |
Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:50
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Member No.: 105,281 |
Hi. I have recently received a rejection to my appeal of my ULEZ PCN from TFL. Like many other users on this forum, I was completely unaware this charge even existed, and saw no signage to indicate otherwise. We travelled at the weekend so checked the CC which we saw didn't need paying (we do not live in London and this was an unplanned journey).
I'm not sure whether it's worth taking my appeal further, at the risk of having to pay the full charge of the PCN rather than the reduced amount! It's only due to the volume of people who seem to be in the same position as me I've joined here to get some advice. It seems very unfair to have to pay this. £80 is a lot of money when you're on maternity leave!! Anyone gone to, or had a result from, the adjudicator yet?? Thanks This post has been edited by Sunshine0523: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:57 |
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Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:50
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 11:10
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 659 Joined: 22 Mar 2016 Member No.: 83,162 |
Am assisting a colleague to take to tribunal in a couple of weeks.
Will post the outcome. |
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 11:19
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Post your representations and the rejection, we believe the signage is inadequate and might be of help to you
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 11:27
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,915 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
It looks as if TfL are batting off all representations, relying on the disproportionate penalty of £180 to put people off appealing to London Tribunals. This is a full £50 more than all the other traffic penalties. They have produced a very long letter for rejecting reps claiming that because its all on-line, the scheme is well advertised. However the law is that the signs must reflect the orders that have established the scheme so a person travelling from the Outer Hebrides to visit his aunt will know, on seeing the sign, that a toll is payable. The signs are so totally inadequate in this regard as to begger belief ! Of course the fact that it will make shedloads of money in penalties for TfL may have a lot to do with the total inadequacy of the signage.
However until somebody actually takes them to London Tribunals we are only giving opinions. Hopefully London Tribunals will not accept any of the TfL bulls**t on signs etc. |
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 14:07
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Member No.: 105,281 |
Thanks for your responses. Below is the information I put in my representation;
Hi. I would like to challenge my PCN, received in the post today. In all honesty I had never heard of the ULEZ until today, when I received the letter. I have not driven in Central London for probably ten years, maybe more, and this was an unplanned journey. I was due to take the train home (see ticket images attached) but was taken ill so my Husband had to drive down to collect me. Being aware of the congestion charge, the following day we did search online to confirm whether we needed to pay anything and saw it was only applicable Mon-Fri. As already stated above, not being aware that the ULEZ even existed, I didn't know to check anything else. I can see now looking on the full webpage for the congestion charge that there is a prompt to check for the ULEZ, however searching on my phone I saw the info I needed without having to go into the full site, which doesn't show ULEZ anywhere (see screenshot image attached). I would appreciate if you would please consider cancelling my PCN and allowing me to pay the standard ULEZ charge. Thank you. Attached are the images mentioned above and of the rejection letter received. |
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 15:09
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,319 |
If that is your appeal, I very much fear you will lose.
Almost all of what you say is mitigation, which is outside the adjudicators' remit, as determined by the High Court. For myself, I remain wholly unconvinced by the argument that the absence of the word 'charge' on the signage makes the pcn unenforceable. Before the ULEZ. the low emission zone had been around since February 2008 (and is technically still around) yet signage for that does not contain the word 'charge'. That's probably a more appropriate comparison than the congestion charge zone signage. Have there been any successful appeals to the adjudicator on the LEZ signage not being enforceable for this reason? It would be interesting to know, but since the signs have remained largely unchanged I doubt it. This post has been edited by spaceman: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 15:20 |
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 19:47
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
It is untested to the best of my knowledge but I disagree with the comparison with the LEZ all the signs are next to the CC signs and a not unreasonable assumption that only one charge applies
I would take the risk. If you save a fiver ( the cost of a cup of coffee) a week between now and when you would have to pay you will save the difference and more so won't miss it if you lose but can have a nice treat if you win 50/50 I reckon -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 21:22
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The appeal must be based on LATOR 18, as Incandescent implies. The website is irrelevant, someone who's never used the internet must still be given adequate notice of the effect of the order, and this is done by means of traffic signs.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 09:57
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,319 |
It is untested to the best of my knowledge but I disagree with the comparison with the LEZ all the signs are next to the CC signs and a not unreasonable assumption that only one charge applies That is simply not the case. There are many LEZ signs which stand on their own with no other sign in sight! We have LEZ signs within a mile of our house and no mention of the CC. This post has been edited by spaceman: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 09:57 |
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Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 10:07
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
It is untested to the best of my knowledge but I disagree with the comparison with the LEZ all the signs are next to the CC signs and a not unreasonable assumption that only one charge applies That is simply not the case. There are many LEZ signs which stand on their own with no other sign in sight! We have LEZ signs within a mile of our house and no mention of the CC. A Misunderstanding all the ULEZ signs are adjacent to CC signs -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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