PCN - private car park - CCTV of vehicle entering and leaving |
Helping the motorist get justice 
Helping the motorist get justice
PCN - private car park - CCTV of vehicle entering and leaving |
 Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 17:10
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651  |
Just received PCN for ".. insufficient paid time.."
Images show vehicle entering at 12:58 and leaving at 15:16. The driver paid for 2 hours parking. So, I was thinking my appeal could be : ... ban on the use of ‘CCTV’ for issuing automated fines except in those no-parking areas around schools, bus stops, bus lanes and red routes. OR No evidence vehicle was " parked" longer than paid time, only images of entry-exit time, likely driver was finding a space, leaving space and making way to exit in the additional 18 minutes. Any advice welcome, Thanks in advance. And Happy New year This post has been edited by Mr.Bourbon: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 18:25 |
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 17:10
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 Advertise here! |
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 17:18
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 22 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,530 |
Can you post up redacted copies of both sides of the PCN? Remove any QR codes too, but leave the dates of incident and issue. There may well be some failure in the wording and the experts will be able to pick holes in that for you. In the meantime edit your post to talk about "the driver" (the driver paid for the parking, the driver was looking for a space etc.)
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 17:30
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#3
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Who issued it?
There's no ANPR ban for private car parks. Grace periods may have some mileage, moreso if you were waiting for a space. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 18:29
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Trying to upload... And get images under 1.95.
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 18:33
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 22 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,530 |
Try following the guidance here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 19:23
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Sorry about the quality... or lack of. |
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 19:33
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Smart? Or not so Smart....
They don't use keeper liability. So, appeal that as they have failed to use the Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue the keeper then you have no liability for the charge. Either cancel it or issue a POPLA code so they can be told to cancel it.... Happy New Year!!!! -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 19:55
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Thanks for the quick reply, so how would I "word" the appeal.
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 23:16
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
So.....
Is the Notice to Owner invalid because the time the vehicle was parked is not stated on the notice, only details of when the vehicle entered and exited the car park. Therefore, do I wait 28 days and then state the Notice to Owner is invalid, because the time the vehicle was parked is missing from the notice. Also invalid because does not comply with the following? State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when. No mention of this on the notice. |
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Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 23:32
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
It's not a notice to owner, it's a Notice to Keeper. How would they know the owner?
They have to get the wording correct to comply with POFA to be able to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the keeper. Here's POFA Just cehck everything that is required in paragraph 9 is in the notice. If I could read it I would check and give you a suitable letter but there is not enough definition to read it. Perhaps you could amend youer post with better definition images? Or when you find out what is wrong then you can find some of those letters already in the forum. This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 - 23:33 |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 10:03
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Hopefully these are clearer
Thanks once again for your help. Happy New year |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 10:31
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Dear Sirs,
I have received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx You have failed to comply with many of the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper. There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records. Yours etc -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 11:22
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
That's the letter, as long as the required details are not on the reverse.
Send first class mail with a free certificate of posting from a post office. Smart will usually cancel but if they don't then you will add all the other failures to the POPLA appeal. They must be really keen to get their money! Posting a NTK on Christmas day. trying to fiddle the figures. As it is it just arrived in time for the 14 days. This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 11:25 |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 11:30
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Thanks for the replies.
So, should I wait 28 days before sending? Thanks again. |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 11:48
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
It doesn't really matter, there is no benefit in this case. They cannot now send a POFA compliant NTK.
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 11:54
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
OK, many thanks for the replies.
Happy New Year to you all. |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 13:28
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Send straightaway - don't give them an excuse to say the appeal was late and now must be paid.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 1 Jan 2019 - 23:50
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Will do.
Thanks again. |
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 18:23
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 31 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,651 |
Just received parking charge notice CANCELLATION!!!
Thanks for all your help, much appreciated. |
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 20:51
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Not so smart are they...
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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