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SkipO
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:38
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Hi,

I've been reading the posts for Vehicle Control Services Ltd and Doncaster Airport but they all appear quite a few years old so hence a new thread. A registered keeper has been receiving the usual threatening letters from the usual suspects for stopping on the road on the close by industrial estate. The reason for pulling up briefly was to close an open door, so therefore an emergency. A brief stop of seconds but of course the dreaded white van appeared. The keeper has been following the old, widely used advice of ignore. However the 'LETTER BEFORE CLAIM' has arrived and our keeper is of a very nervous disposition and is not well. Therefore, so I can put the keepers mind to rest and get some advice, is it still the advice to ignore, wait for court papers (if they ever arrive) or are things different these days?
Many, many thanks for your input.

This post has been edited by SkipO: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:39
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post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:38
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 14:11
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By having a look - 2 minutes on google, for a shocking example - at the PAP for Debt Claims, at what their LBA msut contain, and comparing it to what you have

Have yo udone anything in the ;ast 10 days?
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SkipO
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 15:53
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 15:11) *
By having a look - 2 minutes on google, for a shocking example - at the PAP for Debt Claims, at what their LBA msut contain, and comparing it to what you have

Have yo udone anything in the ;ast 10 days?



Hi,

You do realise I'm trying to do this when I can as a favour for someone as they are not well don't you as in my opening post.
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ostell
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 16:50
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You do realise that all the regular members of the forum are all helping other people as a favour?

When court claims are involved then there can be no hanging about as it could go to judgement by default.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 16:51
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SkipO
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 17:00
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QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 17:50) *
You do realise that all the regular members of the forum are all helping other people as a favour?

When court claims are involved then there can be no hanging about as it could go to judgement by default.



Yes I do. But there are very knowledgeable people on here and these matters I know nothing of and it's all Chinese to me. I was only asking for help.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 08:32
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Yes, and you got help.
However, you clearly wanted to be hand held and told what the issues are
Im showing you how to find this out for yourself.

The advantage of the latter is that you then KNOW what the problems are, instead of taking it on faith.

Feel free to demonstrate that youve done some work on yur part, anytime you like.
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 08:53
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 09:32) *
Yes, and you got help.
However, you clearly wanted to be hand held and told what the issues are
Im showing you how to find this out for yourself.

The advantage of the latter is that you then KNOW what the problems are, instead of taking it on faith.

Feel free to demonstrate that youve done some work on yur part, anytime you like.



I didn't require my hand holding. I have very little time and you know nothing of my personal circumstances. I was trying to help out a very poorly friend where I could and pass on the information.

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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 09:19
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Feel free to keep complaining, it will absolutely endear you to everyone.

Do you want to find out how the LBA doesnt comply, or do you want to be told? Pick one.
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 09:45
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I wasn't complaining!

I was pointing out that I was trying to help a friend.

I've looked and I can't see where it doesn't comply so I was hoping somebody could point this out so I could pass on the information.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 10:15
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Well I asked two questions earlier and you only responded to one.
What documents do you want from them?

This is the first time youve said you cant see where it doesnt comply. Does this mean youve now read the PAP for Debt Claims?
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ManxRed
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 10:20
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I'm feeling charitable.

Click on this link - https://www.tltsolicitors.com/insights-and-...1-october-2017/ - scroll down to the bottom f the page and download the PDF on the Oct 2017 Pre-Action Protocol. Open the document and study section 3 on what the Letter Before Claim should contain.

Compare it with what you were sent and highlight any shortfalls/omissions. Then post them here.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 10:26
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I've read the PAP for debt Claims?

I suppose I need the documents that they hope to rely on in court.

I was getting a bit concerned as I didn't want to give the keeper the wrong advice. They believe that their defence should be that they only stopped in an emergency but most of the postings on here come from an irregularity in the byelaws/LBC/ paperwork.

QUOTE (ManxRed @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 11:20) *
I'm feeling charitable.

Click on this link - https://www.tltsolicitors.com/insights-and-...1-october-2017/ - scroll down to the bottom f the page and download the PDF on the Oct 2017 Pre-Action Protocol. Open the document and study section 3 on what the Letter Before Claim should contain.

Compare it with what you were sent and highlight any shortfalls/omissions. Then post them here.



Will do thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 10:30
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Gah

Have you read the PAP, or have you not? Simple question...
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 10:35
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Yes ...apologies didn't mean to put a ?
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 11:15
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Section 3.1 (a) (iv) where the debt arises from a written agreement, the date of the agreement, the parties to it and the fact that a copy of the written agreement can be requested from the creditor;


It doesn't mention anything about a copy of the agreement can be requested. Can't really see much else, have I missed something?


Further the original PCN is a parking charge and the Contravention reason: is 46) STOPPING IN A ZONE WHERE STOPPING IS PROHIBITED

The LBC states in accordance with Terms and Conditions of Parking.

Technically the driver didn't park but just merely pulled over to make the door safe.

Doncaster Airport Byelaws 5(3) Obstruction

except in an emergency, leave or park a Vehicle or cause it to wait for a period in excess of the permitted time in an area where the period of waiting is restricted by Notice.


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ostell
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 11:31
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So that portion of the byelaws can be used to you advantage in your defence. Show that the byelaws themselves permit stopping in an emergency, and an open door is an emergency.

Have you actually got photos of the signs? They could say no parking and therefore to say you had a contact to park is perverse.
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 11:40
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 12:31) *
So that portion of the byelaws can be used to you advantage in your defence. Show that the byelaws themselves permit stopping in an emergency, and an open door is an emergency.

Have you actually got photos of the signs? They could say no parking and therefore to say you had a contact to park is perverse.



Hi ostell,

Must admit I was getting confused what to tell the keeper as how to reply.

Do I get them to explain what happened on the day and quote the byelaw?

Do they defend themselves by highlighting the technical error in their paperwork?

Or do I go for the lot?

I don't have photos at the moment

Many thanks

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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 12:11
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You go for the lot

Point out that this is for "no stopping" and therefore there is no liability accrued to the keeper under POFA, whcih is STRICTLY limited to parking matters
Furthermore the land is Not Relevant Land for the purposes of POFA and therefore there can NEVER be any liabilty to the keeper. In addition the reason for the vehicle to STOP was an emergency, fully allowed and permitted in the byelaws.

The charge must be canceled. Any attempt to pursue through to court will result in an application to strike out for no cause of action against the keeper OR any possible driver, and there wil lbe no costs protection available to your client. You will pursue for full costs at £19 per hour.
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 15:17
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Vehicle Control Services Ltd,
FAO Litigation Department,
2 Europa Court,
Sheffield Business Park,
Sheffield,
S9 1XE


Dear Sir,


I am in receipt of your letter, reference Letter Before Claim dated 31st July 2018. I do not acknowledge that I was the driver of the vehicle, registration number XXXXXX at the time and place mentioned in your letter.

Although your letter is headed LETTER BEFORE CLAIM, it does not conform to the PAP for Debts guide and regulations.

The driver at the time slowed to secure a door that was opening so therefore was in a state of emergency. Fully allowed and permitted in the byelaws.

Further the original PCN is a parking charge and the Contravention reason: is 46) STOPPING IN A ZONE WHERE STOPPING IS PROHIBITED.
Therefore, there is no liability accrued to the keeper under POFA, which is strictly limited to parking matters. Furthermore, the land is Not Relevant Land for the purposes of POFA and therefore can NEVER be any liability to the keeper.

This charge must be cancelled. Any attempt to pursue through the court will result in an application to strike out for a no cause of action against the keeper OR any possible driver, and there will be no costs protection available to your client. I will pursue for full costs at £19 per hour.



Please have a look and tell me what you think?

Many thanks
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ostell
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 16:09
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Name the byelaw that allows stopping in case of enmergency
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SkipO
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 16:20
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 17:09) *
Name the byelaw that allows stopping in case of enmergency



Many thanks
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