PCN Issued for parking in a suspended bay...Help! Options

[jayu619]

Dear PePiPoo community -

I hope you may be able to help.
The council have started to suspend parking bays on side streets in order to cut tree branches, clean roads etc. They left signs on parking lamp posts for a few days truth be told.
However, stupid me - I parked my car in a parking bay on the day of operation of the parking suspension.

Is there any way of getting out of this PCN or should I cough up and pay?
I have attached pics of the suspension sign as well as front and back of the PCN:







Do I have any chance of beating this PCN?

Thank you so much in advance.
Jay

This post has been edited by jayu619: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 22:55

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[jayu619]

Hi Guys!

Finally received Newham's response, and what do you know, they have rejected our formal reps.
They also stated that they had replied to my informal reps,, which is shown below:

- Page 1

- page 2

And here is their NoR:

- page 1

- page 2

Based on their 2 minute observation, I was able to find this on Newham's website too, page 38:
https://www.newham.gov.uk/Documents/Transpo...-procedures.pdf

They also included pictures with their response, but I cannot still access them on Newham's website.

Should I appeal to ETA based on Mick's case he put forward?

Thanks in advance, ALL/.

Jay

This post has been edited by jayu619: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 19:34

[PASTMYBEST]

The grace period is not a discretionary observation period it is a statutory requirement

I would take this to adjudication

[jayu619]

The grace period is not a discretionary observation period it is a statutory requirement

I would take this to adjudication

Thanks PMB.

I am thinking of sending my first letter to the council when I appealed this PCN:

*******

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 19/02/2018, my vehicle LN** **O was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason (code) of 21 – “parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space”.

This should be cancelled as there is a statutory requirement that a grace period of 10 minutes by virtue of Civil Enforcement of Parking (England) General Regulations 2015. As can be seen from the PCN, observation started at 08.05am and PCN issued at 08.08am. Under the 2015 regulations, the PCN should have been given at 08.11am at the earliest. This was not the case here.

I also refer you to case # 2170123723, in support of my submission above.

*******

Would the above suffice to ETA? I am sure I read somewhere on here that adjudicators do not like references to other cases, is that the case?

Thank you,

Jay

[PASTMYBEST]

The grace period is not a discretionary observation period it is a statutory requirement

I would take this to adjudication

Thanks PMB.

I am thinking of sending my first letter to the council when I appealed this PCN:

*******

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 19/02/2018, my vehicle LN** **O was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason (code) of 21 – “parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space”.

This should be cancelled as there is a statutory requirement that a grace period of 10 minutes by virtue of Civil Enforcement of Parking (England) General Regulations 2015. As can be seen from the PCN, observation started at 08.05am and PCN issued at 08.08am. Under the 2015 regulations, the PCN should have been given at 08.11am at the earliest. This was not the case here.

I also refer you to case # 2170123723, in support of my submission above.

*******

Would the above suffice to ETA? I am sure I read somewhere on here that adjudicators do not like references to other cases, is that the case?

Thank you,

Jay

references to other cases are OK if relevant, but you/we need to beef that up a fair bit and include a fail to consider PI

[jayu619]

The grace period is not a discretionary observation period it is a statutory requirement

I would take this to adjudication

Thanks PMB.

I am thinking of sending my first letter to the council when I appealed this PCN:

*******

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 19/02/2018, my vehicle LN** **O was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason (code) of 21 – “parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space”.

This should be cancelled as there is a statutory requirement that a grace period of 10 minutes by virtue of Civil Enforcement of Parking (England) General Regulations 2015. As can be seen from the PCN, observation started at 08.05am and PCN issued at 08.08am. Under the 2015 regulations, the PCN should have been given at 08.11am at the earliest. This was not the case here.

I also refer you to case # 2170123723, in support of my submission above.

*******

Would the above suffice to ETA? I am sure I read somewhere on here that adjudicators do not like references to other cases, is that the case?

Thank you,

Jay

references to other cases are OK if relevant, but you/we need to beef that up a fair bit and include a fail to consider PI

Thanks PMB
Any help from you and/or anyone else on the forum, would be much appreciated.

[Mad Mick V]

Have they ever responded to the 10 minute rule issue? Complete failure to consider and the use of template letters adds to the OP's case.

They state the OP's contention is that the grace period should be given then completely ignore it.

Mick

[jayu619]

Hello!
I had a little think about how to write this based on Mick's/PMB's recommendations and this is where I got to:

*****

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 19/02/2018, my vehicle LN** **O was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason (code) of 21 – “parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space”.

Firstly, this PCN should be cancelled as there is a statutory requirement that a grace period of 10 minutes by virtue of Civil Enforcement of Parking (England) General Regulations 2015. As can be seen from the PCN, observation started at 08.05am and PCN issued at 08.08am. Under the 2015 regulations, the PCN should have been given at 08.11am at the earliest. This was not the case here.

Secondly, when I had sent in my informal representations, the 10 minute grace period was mentioned and in response to these representations, the issue was not addressed. Instead, I was given the meaning/rule around parking in a suspended parking bay. Again, in my formal representations, I reiterated the same exact concerns about the grace period, but again, this was not addressed as to why it does not apply in my situation. This is a statutory requirement and not a discretionary rule, thus non-negotiable.

Thirdly, in the councils response to my informal representations, it was said my "vehicle was observed on Bridge Road on 19/02/2018 at 08:08 parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space". On the initial PCN, observation started at 08:05 and PCN issued at 08:08; observation did not start at 08:08. If observation was at 08:08, and council state that they allow a 2 minute observation time, then PCN should have been issued at 08:10, at the earliest. There seems to be inconsistent responses between informal representations and NoR, by that I mean, the council agree that a grace period should be given then completely ignore it.

Fourthly, I am still unable to view the pictures online.

Finally, I refer you to case # 2170123723, in support of my submission above.

Yours sincerely,

*****

This is just a draft, so any help/guidance would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.
Jay

[John U.K.]

Finally, I refer you to case # 2170123723 (attached), in support of my submission above.

Insert bit in bold and attach a copy of the decision, with relevant bits highlighted. They won't bother to look it up.

[jayu619]

Finally, I refer you to case # 2170123723 (attached), in support of my submission above.

Insert bit in bold and attach a copy of the decision, with relevant bits highlighted. They won't bother to look it up.

OK thank you John, I have printed and added it to the draft letter.
@PMB/Mick/Stamfordman (or anyone else in this community) - what do you think of the above draft?

I was hoping to get this sorted by this weekend as I am away for 2 weeks.

Thanks,
Jay

[PASTMYBEST]

Finally, I refer you to case # 2170123723 (attached), in support of my submission above.

Insert bit in bold and attach a copy of the decision, with relevant bits highlighted. They won't bother to look it up.

OK thank you John, I have printed and added it to the draft letter.
@PMB/Mick/Stamfordman (or anyone else in this community) - what do you think of the above draft?

I was hoping to get this sorted by this weekend as I am away for 2 weeks.

Thanks,
Jay

It needs quite a bit more by way of explanation of why the grace period applies

[jayu619]

Finally, I refer you to case # 2170123723 (attached), in support of my submission above.

Insert bit in bold and attach a copy of the decision, with relevant bits highlighted. They won't bother to look it up.

OK thank you John, I have printed and added it to the draft letter.
@PMB/Mick/Stamfordman (or anyone else in this community) - what do you think of the above draft?

I was hoping to get this sorted by this weekend as I am away for 2 weeks.

Thanks,
Jay

It needs quite a bit more by way of explanation of why the grace period applies

Thank you PMB.
Any help from you/community on how to explain that would be greatly appreciated.

[cp8759]

Regulation 4 of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 provides that:

"Imposition of penalty charges
4.— (1) Subject to the provisions of these Regulations a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle where there has been committed in relation to that vehicle—
(a)a parking contravention within paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 to the 2004 Act (contraventions relating to parking places in Greater London);
(b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London; or
(с)a parking contravention within paragraph 4 of that Schedule (parking contraventions outside Greater London) in a civil enforcement area outside Greater London.

(2) Paragraph (3) applies in relation to a contravention mentioned in subparagraph (a) to (с) of paragraph (1) where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period.

(3) No penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes.

(4) In this regulation—

(a)“designated parking place” means a parking place established by virtue of an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 32(1)(b), 35 or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(3);
(b)“permitted parking period” means—
(i)a period of parking that has been paid for as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place; or
(ii)a period of parking for which no charge is payable as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place."

My vehicle was parked in a designated parking space prior to the suspension coming into force. At 8 am the restriction came into force, so my vehicle at that point in time was stationary beyond the permitted parking period, however by virtue of regulation 4(3) above no penalty charge was payable, even though my vehicle was in contravention, until 8:10:01 am. As my vehicle was observed between 8:05 am and 8:08 am, at the time the PCN was served no penalty charge was yet payable. Regulation 9A only allows a Civil Enforcement Officer to serve a PCN when he has formed the belief that a penalty charge is payable, it is not permissible to preemptively serve a PCN on a vehicle where a penalty charge is not yet payable.

It follows that although the alleged contravention occurred, there has been a procedural impropriety because the Civil Enforcement Officer served the Penalty Charge Notice at a time when he was proscribed from doing so.

[jayu619]

Regulation 4 of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 provides that:

"Imposition of penalty charges
4.— (1) Subject to the provisions of these Regulations a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle where there has been committed in relation to that vehicle—
(a)a parking contravention within paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 to the 2004 Act (contraventions relating to parking places in Greater London);
(b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London; or
(с)a parking contravention within paragraph 4 of that Schedule (parking contraventions outside Greater London) in a civil enforcement area outside Greater London.

(2) Paragraph (3) applies in relation to a contravention mentioned in subparagraph (a) to (с) of paragraph (1) where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period.

(3) No penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes.

(4) In this regulation—

(a)“designated parking place” means a parking place established by virtue of an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 32(1)(b), 35 or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(3);
(b)“permitted parking period” means—
(i)a period of parking that has been paid for as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place; or
(ii)a period of parking for which no charge is payable as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place."

My vehicle was parked in a designated parking space prior to the suspension coming into force. At 8 am the restriction came into force, so my vehicle at that point in time was stationary beyond the permitted parking period, however by virtue of regulation 4(3) above no penalty charge was payable, even though my vehicle was in contravention, until 8:10:01 am. As my vehicle was observed between 8:05 am and 8:08 am, at the time the PCN was served no penalty charge was yet payable. Regulation 9A only allows a Civil Enforcement Officer to serve a PCN when he has formed the belief that a penalty charge is payable, it is not permissible to preemptively serve a PCN on a vehicle where a penalty charge is not yet payable.

It follows that although the alleged contravention occurred, there has been a procedural impropriety because the Civil Enforcement Officer served the Penalty Charge Notice at a time when he was proscribed from doing so.

Hi CP -

This is amazing, thank you so much for drafting this for me. I have included this in the relevant section of my draft letter. Thank you!!

Will that be enough to send through to the ETA?

Jay

[cp8759]

I would have thought that should be enough, if anyone makes further suggestions you are allowed to make further submissions before the case is decided.

[jayu619]

Hello!

I received my postal response today, and the Appeal was allowed! **HOOORAY!!**

First off, thank you to everyone who contributed as you guys provide some amazing feedback and guidance!

And

Secondly, here is the extract from the adjudicator:

"I allow the appeal for the following reasons.
The Appellant raised as an issue in his formal representations, that there was a 10 minute grace
period, which applied by virtue of the Civil Enforcement of Parking (General) Regulations 2015; the
EA failed to address this, and asserted that there was a two minute waiting period only. The failure to
address the Appellant's argument is a procedural impropriety and so I allow this as a ground of
appeal.
However, so that the Appellant is not under any illusions he is not actually correct in his assertion
about these Regulations. They simply provide that the motorist will not have to pay a PCN where the
vehicle was left for a period exceeding 10 minutes in a designated parking place, where payment had
been made or where no charge was payable. This does not mean that there is 10 minutes
observation/grace period in every place. Here it patently does not apply as the road was not subject to
any restrictions until 8am; so it cannot be said that in the period leading to 8am it cannot be said to
have been in a "permitted parking period".

I maintained my position that they failed to address the 10 minute rule as I've said it twice and at both times ignored by Newham.

Thank you.
Jay

This post has been edited by jayu619: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 19:12

[makara]

Many Congrats - well done

[cp8759]

The adjudicator is wrong, the 10 minute rule applies if one is parked in a place that has been designated parking place:

"(4) In this regulation—

(a)“designated parking place” means a parking place established by virtue of an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 32(1)(b), 35 or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(3);"

The fact that the designated parking place does or doesn't have any restrictions is irrelevant, the only fact that counts is whether it's been designated under the RTRA 1984.

Still, a win's a win.