PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PCN 52m Browning Road Newham (with summaries of other pepi threads), Includes all other forum posts for the same contravention inside
neverpaying
post Fri, 4 Sep 2020 - 14:23
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120




Penalty Charge Notice

The very last link from August (the day of my contravention coincidentally) looks to be the smoking gun here!

What do you all suggest?

I've done some reading on this forum and below are all of the relevant posts and replies I could find for the same contravention (in ascending date order).

Warning letter, no demand for payment
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1545427
27 Jan 2020

Apparently NOT a 6 month order but wording on link is interesting
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1558116
19 Mar 2020

6 month experimental period, permit holders only?
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1560017
28 Mar 2020

Minor flaws in NoR - not sure if it applies to mine
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1570387
10 Jun 2020

Possible "will/may" flaw on the Notice of Rejection
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1576072
20 Jul 2020

Case won on late council response
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1576157
21 Jul 2020

Case won based on experimental order time period ****
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=135514
22 Aug 2020

Link to notice in official public record - can't make out the wording on the 6 months here
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3347560
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V  « < 2 3 4  
Start new topic
Replies (60 - 70)
Advertisement
post Fri, 4 Sep 2020 - 14:23
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 8 Mar 2021 - 13:41
Post #61


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (neverpaying @ Fri, 5 Mar 2021 - 18:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 5 Mar 2021 - 16:22) *
Well the only points you can argue is that the delay has been unfair, and the Notice of Rejection doesn't tell you the tribunal can consider a late appeal. I'm sorry to say it's likely you'll lose, but those are the only arguments you have.


What about the fact that the council hasn't provided evidence of the extension of the experimental order? This point alone won another case that I linked in the original post. Unless I've missed that document, they have not provided evidence to me either.

If the order isn't in evidence at all, you can simply claim there is no contravention because there is no traffic order in the evidence pack.

If the order is in the evidence back then I'm afraid there is no need for a time extension, as the order is valid for 18 months. In the case where the appellant won on that point, the adjudicator simply got the law wrong, and you can't realistically rely on the adjudicator making a silly mistake like that.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Tue, 16 Mar 2021 - 19:09
Post #62


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



I will collect some of the ideas in this thread and try and build an appeal. I'll post a draft here next week hopefully.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Mon, 22 Mar 2021 - 20:46
Post #63


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



So these are all of the points that have been raised in the thread:

- Try and push them on the point of whether TMO is valid for 18 months by default, cases have been won on this point and hopefully the adjudicator makes the same "mistake"

- Failure to consider as suggested by cp8759, as they have made statements in their notice of rejection that did not pertain to my case. "Signs were not visible", when I did not say or contest that.

- Took them 99 days to serve me the notice of rejection. Even with lockdowns, it may be seen as bordering on excessive.

- Original ETO has been modified by adding additional streets that are covered for permits, therefore the restrictions have changed and the original ETO invalidated. Browning Road is in both ETOs however.

- NoR does not state that I can make an out-of-time appeal

And for convenience, here is the link again to the evidence they have provided: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1621624

And their NoR (relevant to the last point): https://postimg.cc/gallery/08N141k
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Tue, 23 Mar 2021 - 14:26
Post #64


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



^
Hey all, any thoughts on this ^

(I need to stop posting in the evenings!)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Tue, 23 Mar 2021 - 19:14
Post #65


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I posted an Ealing case that might help you, in this thread this morning >>
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=138512

There are also Lewisham cases for Manor Lane that are similar I believe.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Wed, 24 Mar 2021 - 17:10
Post #66


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 23 Mar 2021 - 20:14) *
I posted an Ealing case that might help you, in this thread this morning >>
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=138512

There are also Lewisham cases for Manor Lane that are similar I believe.

Great news for that poster that the case won! Unfortunately, in my case I did not turn out of a side road into Browning Road. I drove straight through so I'm not sure if I can make the claim about the inadequate signage?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 24 Mar 2021 - 17:26
Post #67


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



Sorry, I thought you said somewhere that you approached along Rectory Rd?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 14:36
Post #68


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 24 Mar 2021 - 18:26) *
Sorry, I thought you said somewhere that you approached along Rectory Rd?


No, I had driven straight down into the road I hadn't made a turn. The confusion is from here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1610664 where they claimed that I had done that (which might be a reason to use the "failure to consider" argument)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Sat, 27 Mar 2021 - 11:57
Post #69


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



Hearing today by John Hamilton, probably won't rule in my favour:

- Try and push them on the point of whether TMO is valid for 18 months by default, cases have been won on this point and hopefully the adjudicator makes the same "mistake"
--> Established that in my case this was not an experimental traffic order that the enforcing authority were using and so the "6 month" limit does not have any effect

- Took 99 days to serve NoR
--> 56 day rule does not apply to moving traffic orders, so not unlawful

- Original ETO modified to include additional streets
--> Section only applies to experimental traffic orders

- NoR does not state that I can make an out-of-time appeal
--> Heard but no comments made.

- Failure to consider
--> Heard but no comments made
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Sat, 27 Mar 2021 - 14:13
Post #70


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



OP---so your case was heard but the adjudicator has reserved judgement??

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neverpaying
post Sat, 27 Mar 2021 - 15:56
Post #71


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Member No.: 102,120



QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sat, 27 Mar 2021 - 15:13) *
OP---so your case was heard but the adjudicator has reserved judgement??

Mick


He didn't give me the judgement over the phone, said he'd have to work through my points
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  « < 2 3 4
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 09:07
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here