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LPS EXCESS CHARGE NOTICE, PRIVATE PARKING FINE
sarahlhug82
post Thu, 7 May 2015 - 12:45
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Hi

I was hoping for some advice. I received an excess parking fine from a company called LPS on Monday 4th May. We were 19 minutes late back to the car on a trip to the Sand Dunes at Merthyr Mawr due to us having to change my young son's nappy before we left. When we got back to the car we found the ticket (we were one of many in the car park) and were shocked to see that for 19 minutes they were expecting an £85 fine or £50 if we pay within 14 days. This I feel is a very excessive amount of money for this error in judgement, money that we don't have to spare. I have taken some advice from friends, and all have said don't pay and ignore, however I am very unsure about doing this as there must be a way that they can force people to pay up or there would be no point issuing the tickets in the first place. The company is part of the BPS and nothing to do with the council or the police. We were late and we were at fault however £85/50 is a large amount of money to charge someone for a quiet carpark on a Bank Holiday Monday. The case can be appealed directly to them but this involves then disclosing personal details and I am sure will be rejected. Any advice as to what to do will be gratefully received. Many thanks!


This post has been edited by sarahlhug82: Thu, 7 May 2015 - 12:51
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post Thu, 7 May 2015 - 12:45
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sarahlhug82
post Sun, 17 May 2015 - 20:18
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I am considering just paying this charge as I don't feel that any appeal would win and we will end up paying the charges anyway. The reasons for this being:

1) We were 19 minutes late back to the car - our fault.
2) There was sufficient signage in the car park - it was just our error being late back due to taking care of our son
3) They have pictures of the signage on the account (I went on to have a look)

I'm just not sure we have grounds for an appeal other than the fact that the charge is excessive for the losses received (£50/£85)

Today is the last day we can pay the reduced amount.

Can anyone advise on the likelihood of us getting anywhere with this?

I'm also nervous of the consequences - we don't have much money and two children to consider.

Many thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 17 May 2015 - 20:58
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The appeals on here are usually successful, unless it's IAS.

Even with IAS, you don't have to pay anything, until they issue court papers, turn up, and then Actually win.

All of this is months and months away.
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emanresu
post Mon, 18 May 2015 - 05:04
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QUOTE
Can anyone advise on the likelihood of us getting anywhere with this?


Its the other way around. Can LPS get anywhere with this? Highly unlikely. They have to prove a) the signs were clear b) they had a contract and c) the contract provides for the ability to take any action other than sending out letters.

You will get a lot of letters and then nothing as it is unlikely they have the authority to do anything. But you would know this if you found out who owned/leased the car park.
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sarahlhug82
post Mon, 18 May 2015 - 09:53
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Apparently it's owned privately by a family who employ LPS to monitor the parking. Does this make a difference?
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ostell
post Mon, 18 May 2015 - 15:51
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So LPS are employed to monitor the parking and don't own the land. Therefore LPS do not have the legal standing to take you to court. They may even not have the right to issue parking tickets.
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sarahlhug82
post Mon, 18 May 2015 - 20:53
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Okay so I haven't paid the reduced fee and today was the deadline, I'm going to appeal. A friend of the family has advised me that I should appeal to LPS now via their appeal email address rather than waiting for the letter through the post and then appealing. What are the advantages to waiting and why have the people on this forum suggested this is the best thing to do? I understand that by emailing them an appeal now they will have my information - but won't they get that anyway off the DVLA and then when I appeal to them for a POPLA code? Does it make any difference if I wait?
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Albert Ross
post Mon, 18 May 2015 - 23:53
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If you appeal now then you are the Driver that contracted with LPS.
If you appeal after you receive the letter to the keeper then you may not be that driver that contracted with LPS.
If LPS do not follow the ACT [POFA 2012] to the letter, then they cannot enforce the contract by claiming liability from the keeper.

So appeal as the keeper when the letter arrives:
That the signs are inadequate and do not form a contract
that the amount (if it is found to form a contract) is unconscionable and extortionate and bears no relation to a fine issued by a statutory undertaking both before and after discounts apply.
That they are not the landowners and have no authority to contract with the motorist.

Does the car park belong to the castle?


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Barry S
post Tue, 19 May 2015 - 02:51
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Is there any mileage in their misuse of the term "Excess Charge Notice", given that has a specific meaning under RTRA 1984?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 19 May 2015 - 07:06
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Its a breahc of thre BPA CoP to use misleading language, and it is arguably Fraud as well, as it is attempting to gain money through misrepresentation of authority
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sarahlhug82
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 11:15
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Okay so I didn't pay the reduced amount and didn't contact them. Now I have had the 'Notice to Keeper' letter through to my house which advises to appeal directly to them in the first instance within 28 days of issue which was 10th June. They state to include; name and address of driver, vehicle registration and reference no. and they will reply within 14 days. Could someone please talk me through what details I should and should not include in the appeal letter? I understand that this is likely to be rejected however is there a template I can use?

Many thanks in advance
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 12:31
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As you will have seen by looking round this forum int he meantime, there is a LOT of information here.

You do NOT name the driver. In fact, if they are *requiring* you to do so, this is a breach of the code of practice, and you should complain.
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sarahlhug82
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 13:49
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It says 'failure to provide driver details or payment of the full amount of £85 within the 28 days of this notice will result in your case being passed to a debt recovery agency where the outstanding charge will increase and further administrative costs may be incurred. What do I put in the appeal letter?
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ostell
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 14:06
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How about posting up the letter so that all can read? With the personal details removed.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 14:20
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And, in case it wasnt clear - as you will have found out by reading around this forum, you are NOT REQUIRED TO NAME THE DRIVER. You ONLY name the driver IF it will grant some advantage to you.

They can write a whole load of tosh in letters. Doesnt mean it is true.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 14:52
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Go back to post #27 and draft your appeal to them based upon what Albert has said. Post it here for fine tuning. It's important that you do some work on this to gain some understanding of the issues. Pure regurgitation of a template that you don't understand could lead you to problems further down the road.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 15:05
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QUOTE (sarahlhug82 @ Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 14:49) *
It says 'failure to provide driver details or payment of the full amount of £85 within the 28 days of this notice will result in your case being passed to a debt recovery agency where the outstanding charge will increase and further administrative costs may be incurred.

So they pass it to someone else whop can only write more scary letters, they can add whatever admin charge they like, it would be for a court to decide if they were justified in any way, as DRA's get paid a percentage of any income they generate, the most they could claim would be that percentage which will be a lot less that the scary number they dream up.

You are treating these like a serious company and not semi-legal scamming (which is what it is).


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sarahlhug82
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 20:28
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Dennis Basher
post Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 21:56
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Our company is currently dealing with a speculative invoice from LPS - we received their NtK about 3 weeks ago and we will be sending off our challenge (as keeper) to LPS tomorrow. One of the key points of our challenge is based upon the many reasons why LPS's NtK does not comply with POFA 2012.

The wording of your NtK is the same as ours and so long as you appeal as keeper and don't provide LPS with details of the driver, non-compliance with POFA 2012 will be one of your strongest appeal points too.

Don't be distracted by the official-looking Declaration of Owner / Driver; this is a red herring and is designed to trick the keeper into revealing the driver's details. You have no obligation to complete it.

Of course, the Payment Slip is also a red herring - you'll have no need to complete that either!
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sarahlhug82
post Tue, 16 Jun 2015 - 11:51
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How do you appeal as keeper then and not make it seem as though you are admitting being the driver? Do you have to actually state in the letter you are appealing as the vehicle keeper? How are you wording your appeal? Thanks so much for the info!
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cabbyman
post Tue, 16 Jun 2015 - 12:28
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Draft a letter and post it on here for fine tuning. It's better that you have a go yourself and try to get your head around some of the issues than relying on someone else to do the work for you.


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