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Stop the ULEZ
Korting
post Tue, 5 May 2020 - 20:03
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Some of you may find this interesting https://stopulez.com

You can sign the petition if you like.

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post Tue, 5 May 2020 - 20:03
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stamfordman
post Tue, 5 May 2020 - 20:54
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The main cars caught by this are pre euro 6 diesels. euro 6 came in 2014.

I don't think there is major concern about petrol cars as euro 4 goes back 15 years. Even our gas guzzling Volvo of 2005 meets ULEZ.

Most pre euro 3 motorbikes are coming up for 20 years.

The current much cleaner air in the city will not help the anti-ULEZ crowd.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 5 May 2020 - 21:24
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Neil B
post Tue, 5 May 2020 - 23:00
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 5 May 2020 - 21:54) *
The main cars caught by this are pre euro 6 diesels. euro 6 came in 2014.

I don't think there is major concern about petrol cars as euro 4 goes back 15 years. Even our gas guzzling Volvo of 2005 meets ULEZ.

Most pre euro 3 motorbikes are coming up for 20 years.

The current much cleaner air in the city will not help the anti-ULEZ crowd.

Can't disagree and we all want cleaner air but, at the same time, hundreds of thousands, if not a few million. find themselves in possession
of a Euro 5 diesel and delayed, by circumstance, to be able to sell it.
I know it's a difficult concept for those better off but if you are someone that owns such a crucil item worth just £2K, you can't afford to lose that £2K.

MOTs were postponed by 6 months and I see no reason ULEZ can't be likewise. Given the season, perhaps 12 months.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Tue, 5 May 2020 - 23:42
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 00:00) *
Can't disagree and we all want cleaner air but, at the same time, hundreds of thousands, if not a few million. find themselves in possession
of a Euro 5 diesel and delayed, by circumstance, to be able to sell it.
I know it's a difficult concept for those better off but if you are someone that owns such a crucil item worth just £2K, you can't afford to lose that £2K.

MOTs were postponed by 6 months and I see no reason ULEZ can't be likewise. Given the season, perhaps 12 months.


The zone is only going to the north and south circulars and includes the boroughs with low car ownership - Hackney car access per household is 34%, and car ownership also decreases according to income.

The poorest people are also those most affected by pollution, including much caused by people not from their area driving through it.

Disabled and private hire class are exempted til 2025.

If you only use a car occasionally paying the charge isn't going to be a hardship. Using a polluting car to commute is fair game for the charge in my view.

TFL has a scrappage scheme for small businesses.

All in all I can't see that this will be a major attack on the poor - most of whom stand to benefit in inner London.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 5 May 2020 - 23:43
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mickR
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 09:57
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 00:42) *
The zone is only going to the north and south circulars


ohmy.gif have you looked at a map to see the area that covers??

QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 00:00) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 5 May 2020 - 21:54) *
The main cars caught by this are pre euro 6 diesels. euro 6 came in 2014.

I don't think there is major concern about petrol cars as euro 4 goes back 15 years. Even our gas guzzling Volvo of 2005 meets ULEZ.

Most pre euro 3 motorbikes are coming up for 20 years.

The current much cleaner air in the city will not help the anti-ULEZ crowd.

Can't disagree and we all want cleaner air but, at the same time, hundreds of thousands, if not a few million. find themselves in possession
of a Euro 5 diesel and delayed, by circumstance, to be able to sell it.
I know it's a difficult concept for those better off but if you are someone that owns such a crucil item worth just £2K, you can't afford to lose that £2K.


Not to mention my 11k van bought a few years back thats only done 34k miles that i wont be able to drive more than a couple of miles in one direction unless i pay £12 !!
How much will i loose on that now?? Scrappage laugh.gif
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stamfordman
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:13
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:57) *
Not to mention my 11k van bought a few years back thats only done 34k miles that i wont be able to drive more than a couple of miles in one direction unless i pay £12 !!
How much will i loose on that now?? Scrappage laugh.gif



There is the rest of the country to sell vehicles to.
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mickR
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:41
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:13) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:57) *
Not to mention my 11k van bought a few years back thats only done 34k miles that i wont be able to drive more than a couple of miles in one direction unless i pay £12 !!
How much will i loose on that now?? Scrappage laugh.gif



There is the rest of the country to sell vehicles to.


And you dont think the rest of the country will be taking advantage of the fact that hundereds if not thousands of london based vehiclrs will be on the market reducing prices??
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stamfordman
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:54
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:41) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:13) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:57) *
Not to mention my 11k van bought a few years back thats only done 34k miles that i wont be able to drive more than a couple of miles in one direction unless i pay £12 !!
How much will i loose on that now?? Scrappage laugh.gif



There is the rest of the country to sell vehicles to.


And you dont think the rest of the country will be taking advantage of the fact that hundereds if not thousands of london based vehiclrs will be on the market reducing prices??



Maybe, but I think secondhand prices will hold up well given that a lot fewer new ones are being sold.



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Korting
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:31
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You have to wonder why pollution is so much higher considering that vehicles manufactured in the last 30 years are much cleaner and getting cleaner every year.

The biggest polluters are the buses including so called hybrids and large trucks. These vehicles cost upwards of £100K, I believe the average cost of a bus is around £250K.

The batteries on buses only power the bus until it reaches 5 - 10 mph then the diesel kicks in. As the buses drive very slowly, the converters dont get a chance to reach its optimum operating temperature, so pollution is heavier.

There are also many many more cars on the roads especially Ubers. A lot of this is down to the huge amount of immigrants that came here in the late 1990's / early 2000's and beyond.

This surge in population is, in my opinion totally down to Tony Blair and his Governments policies.

Once again Labour's policy costs us all a lot of money.

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The Rookie
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 13:35
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QUOTE (Korting @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 12:31) *
You have to wonder why pollution is so much higher

Its not, well not since some time before 1700 anyway.
https://ourworldindata.org/london-air-pollution

Rendering most your argument a nullity.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 6 May 2020 - 13:36


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stamfordman
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 13:36
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 14:35) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 12:31) *
You have to wonder why pollution is so much higher

Its not, well not since some time before 1700 anyway.
https://ourworldindata.org/london-air-pollution

Rendering most your argument a nullity.



It rather looks like it's a proxy for his real concerns.
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Fredd
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 13:57
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 14:36) *
It rather looks like it's a proxy for his real concerns prejudices.

FTFY.


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mickR
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 14:10
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:54) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:41) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 11:13) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 10:57) *
Not to mention my 11k van bought a few years back thats only done 34k miles that i wont be able to drive more than a couple of miles in one direction unless i pay £12 !!
How much will i loose on that now?? Scrappage laugh.gif



There is the rest of the country to sell vehicles to.


And you dont think the rest of the country will be taking advantage of the fact that hundereds if not thousands of london based vehiclrs will be on the market reducing prices??



Maybe, but I think secondhand prices will hold up well given that a lot fewer new ones are being sold.


I can only hope lol
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TonyS
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 14:36
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 00:00) *
I know it's a difficult concept for those better off but if you are someone that owns such a crucil item worth just £2K, you can't afford to lose that £2K.

The real cost for people caught out will be the cost of a new, compliant, vehicle. Likely to be a lot more than £2K.

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stamfordman
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 14:42
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QUOTE (TonyS @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 00:00) *
I know it's a difficult concept for those better off but if you are someone that owns such a crucil item worth just £2K, you can't afford to lose that £2K.

The real cost for people caught out will be the cost of a new, compliant, vehicle. Likely to be a lot more than £2K.


It would be probably be cheaper to pay the charge on the days you use it than buy another car.

But you can pick up compliant vehicles pretty cheaply. I bought a Kia Rio for £900 that goes very well.



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Korting
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 17:10
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 15:42) *
QUOTE (TonyS @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 00:00) *
I know it's a difficult concept for those better off but if you are someone that owns such a crucil item worth just £2K, you can't afford to lose that £2K.

The real cost for people caught out will be the cost of a new, compliant, vehicle. Likely to be a lot more than £2K.


It would be probably be cheaper to pay the charge on the days you use it than buy another car.

But you can pick up compliant vehicles pretty cheaply. I bought a Kia Rio for £900 that goes very well.



Petrol ones yes Diesels, no. I drive large diesels because I drive between 15 - 18K miles a year, mainly on motorways
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The Rookie
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 17:14
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That because appears a preference and not a need?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Korting
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 17:45
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 6 May 2020 - 18:14) *
That because appears a preference and not a need?


It is a need because the cost of fuelling a petrol car is double that for a diesel. Given that on a long run I can get 500-600 miles to a tank on a large Audi or Volvo estate. No petrol car gives me that sort of economy.

We should ask why new buses and trucks use diesel rather than petrol, probably for the same reasons.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 17:47
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I was referring to the large bit, dispense with that and Petrol would work for you.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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stamfordman
post Wed, 6 May 2020 - 17:57
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Sounds like a professional driver or someone with a lot of business travel - road charging needs to be factored into business travel and a switch to a leased diesel would solve ULEZ.

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