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Money Claim Online UKCPS, Threads merged
Mr_Mark
post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 20:37
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Good evening I received a claim from the courts from UKPCS and having read the forums I may well have submitted a really poor defence
I parked on a carpark that is managed by UKPCS but my mate owns a business that uses this carpark for his staff
I was unaware that it was controlled by them and had previously asked my mate who was the company director if I could park there when going to the footy and he had said yes its fine park whenever you like (via facebook messenger which I still have)
I parked as he said I could and obviously got a ticket which I appealed on the above grounds which was rejected so I appealed to the next stage which was rejected again
I got a fresh claim for £100 and a warning attached that a further £60 would be added if they decided to take me to court which I ignored
I received the money claim which ive acknowledged but I have carried on and filled out the defence bit which in hind site having read a lot of threads I should have held back on
the basics of my defence were that firstly I questioned the charges (pointless I think) but I have said I had permission and also that the signage is crap unreadable and as it was at night impossible to see in the dark, but looking at the defences ive seen this is pretty scant on caselaw or any legal justification

Is there any way I can change my defence to beef it up or am I stuck with what I have committed myself too?
Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

update this is my defence I posted I have just been online and copied it obviously ive edited out the names and having read it im a bit disappointed that I didn't do better but I hope it cover all the basses
the person who brought the claim isn't UKPCS or any of the directors so I took the liberty of questioning who they are also

I have a few concerns about this claim firstly I have no idea who
the claimant I Lee is and wonder if they have the right of
audience to this court?
Secondly I feel this is an unfair contract as the amount of £100
claimed is disproportionate to the loss they could have incurred
and is contractually unfair and I believe this is in fact a fine
as the maximum loss although in fact the carpark was empty would
have been less than £15.
Thirdly and the main part of my defence was that I had permission
given to me by the person who uses this car park for his business
Mike *** of **** who told me I could park there any
time I wished, because this permission was given I would not have
been looking for any signs and also as it was at night and none of
the signs in the area I parked have illumination I would not have
been able to see them anyway
I have a screenshot of the conversation although dated a few
months before, and also a screenshot of the company web site to
show that Mike is the director
I also have photographs of the signs showing the lack of
illumination and the approximate distance they were
away from my car.
I did appeal when the ticket arrived through the post but this was
rejected so I have not ignored this fine but have all along felt
that it was not justified or valid as I had permission.


This post has been edited by Mr_Mark: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:58
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post Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 20:37
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Lynnzer
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 19:42
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QUOTE (Mr_Mark @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 19:54) *
QUOTE (Mr_Mark @ Tue, 16 Jul 2019 - 18:10) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 18:13) *
You need to fill in the allocation questionnaire and picking a court local to you seems sensible. I doubt the online centre would entertain an application for strike out - they would probably transfer it to a hearing centre. I’m not suggesting you make an application to strike out, by the way - as said, I think the prospects of success are slim.

OK thanks I'll fill it in
To be honest I believe my defence is quite reasonable as I had permission to park there any time I wanted plus it was close to 9pm on a winters evening so no of the signs were visible
Luck of the draw on the day I suppose
Thanks I'll update when things progress
bit of an update they now know I'm defending the claim and have sent a reduced offer for me to settle but it's 120 so I'll pass

Standard tactic. Got one myself (for my son). I can't be absolutely confident that this is just a means of reducing the prospect of some frightened average Joe from having to face a Judge, aghhhhh. A Judge, County Court....must settle while I have the chance.

Load of old bollox as far as I can see. I feel it's more of an attempt to have the defendant give in, and in my case desist from the counterclaim that was filed on a case they have no realistic prospect of winning.


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Mr_Mark
post Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 16:40
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Hi all I have a development from the courts and have to submit my evidence etc by the 23rd of this month and im a little confused Can I email it in or has it to be in writing? and posted
Also I think I may decide to change my defence a little as ive found the original docs sent by UKCPS and to be honest its a joke as its a picture of my car number plate in total darkness and shows nothing to say where its parked etc
I took some photos of the site a while back and the signs are small and I would say invisible in the pitch dark so I would think that would be my best line of defence I will attach my pictures and the original doc for you to look at to see if you agree
thanks in advance
#Mark
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Mr_Mark
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:01
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Hi all I have a previous post regarding a ticket from UKCPS
This has now entered the court stage and I had a letter from the court giving me a date in 2020 but asking for my evidence and statement by the 23rd of Oct it also stated I had to send this to UKCPS or It could be inadmissible
I've done this and coppied in the only email i have for them but was expecting the same from UKCPS but i have received nothing at all from them
I have an acknowledgement from the court saying its received
Any ideas on if i win by default because UKCPS failed to furnish me with their evidence or is it still moving forward to the court date without me seeing the evidence against me?

Thanks in advance
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:16
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I've asked a Mod to merge your threads so the same questions aren't asked all over again in accordance with the 'one case, one thread' rule.

The answers is yes, no, maybe... depends on the mood of the judge. You can write NOW to the court requesting the claim is struck out due to their failure to comply with a court order, but if you receive it in good time before the hearing a judge is likely to just shrug their shoulders.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 12:18


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Mr_Mark
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 14:59
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Thanks for the merge I thought the other post was dead as I added info but no replies
I am hoping that I'll win or they discontinue as I found the original paperwork and to be honest its pathetic and if anything backs up my defence of no signs visible as it was pitch dark but we will see
It makes me laugh that they set deadlines on the paperwork for court then dont stick to it and knowing my luck if I was late I'd get done 😂
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 11:12
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OK you really need to have read up on court process and NOT waited until the last minute on this

You need to provide the court AND claimnt:
1) Witness statement - did you do this? Yes or No. If YES then show us exactly what you sent
If NO then guess what - you need to have done so else you are in breach of a court order. Thats bad.

2) ALL your exhibits that support your defence, and importantly - they must be introduced within your witness statement.

Usually you PRINT and HAND IN to the court, as they do NOT get it right - they will forget to print some pages etc. Youre then stuffed.
You can only serve on the claimant by email if you get their permission to do so. If you dont hae it, then you need to post it

YoU CANNOT change your defence. Not gonna happen> Costs £255 to even ASK to change it, you dont get that fee back, etc.

Their WS / Evidence - they will have had the same deadline as you so
a) call the court
b) ask the court if they have received the claimants ws and exhibits - yes or no answer needed. If yes ask the date
c) state YOU have not had the Cs WS or exhibits, and you would like this noted on the file for the courts attention
d) Follow up with a letter to the ocurt stating that the C has failed to serve the D with the WS and Exhibits by ... as per the order of .... date
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Mr_Mark
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 11:26
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Thanks for the reply I sent a witness statement and photos showing firstly the area I parked and the crap signs 2nd a copy of the first thing they sent which was a number plate taken in total darkness
I will print off the evidence and post it to them stating that i emailed it and am following up with a hard copy
I'll ring the courts and see if they have sent in any evidence but as its been a couple of weeks I'd have expected a copy so it probably works in my favour that's not been received as I've not sent a copy yet by post
I can post up a copy of my statement later when I can get to my PC but unfortunately I asked for a bit of help here but that was missed so I ran out of time and did it all myself
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Mr_Mark
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 11:41
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Just found a copy on my phone so its attached after an edit
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 13:29
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You asked for help with only 5 days to go, when the courts would have given you, at a guess, at least 4 WEEKS notice of the deadline; don't confuse your lack of planning for our emergency. You've seen how busy the forum is.

This is your court claim, not ours! smile.gif

Who will you post it to? Did your WS include references to the evidence such as photos? It may work in your favour, but if the COURT has a copy, they wont know anything is wrong - ie that YOU dont have one.

Impossible to read that attachment. READ ME sticky. Dont use forum upload space.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 13:33
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QUOTE (Mr_Mark @ Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 11:26) *
Thanks for the reply I sent a witness statement and photos

Where and to whom? You were asked this above.....


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Mr_Mark
post Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 16:36
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I asked in mid October around the 17th but that's not important now
Many thanks for the reply
I sent the statement ect including numbered photos with claim ref against each
I sent them in to the courts there was an email address in the request sent to me and details of how to upload etc
I coppied in UKCPS and informed the court in the email content that I had done so
I had to reduce the file size but it must have degraded too much so I'll paste it below


My defence to the above claim is as follows,

1 I had permission from Mike **** who at the time rented the premises and carpark and traded from there with 24 hr access.
I have attached a copy of the messenger conversation and Mikes company biog to show this and his relationship to ******* who were the users of the carpark at the time of the alleged offence.
2 I would have been unable to see the signs on site which are not illuminated, and as you can see from the original notice to keeper it was pitch dark on the evening in question the attached photographs I took at a later date show the location of the signs in the car park and also the fact that they are not illuminated.
3 The original notice to keeper is ambiguous and shows a flash photograph of a car number plate and fails to show where its parked or any offence being committed and no further photographs have been sent to me which show otherwise which I would have thought would be the right thing to do if an appeal is lodged.
I am not a person who generally fails to pay parking fines but because I had permission to park on the carpark and also did not see any signs telling me that UKCPS had taken over the running of this particular part of the carpark complex I firmly believe I did not breech the contract as it is alleged.
I will have to take time off from work to attend this case and I will lose pay as I am self-employed and this loss is substantially more than the original penalty charge but I feel that I have no choice to defend this action as I have tried all of the other available appeal processes which were reject as a matter of course.

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 09:34
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You asked on the 18th, with a deadline of the 23rd. As I said, you asked with only 5 days to go, and you can see how busy the forum is. Your failure to plan - as you will have been warned WELL in advance by the court - isnt our fault.

So is it a defence or a witness statement? See how thats a little confusing....

How do you know the court will print everythign out? They have form for NOT doing so. I would suggest you print and hand deliver a byundle for them, same as told in every thread. This way you KNOW they have it
DId you have permission from UKCPS to serve by email? Yes or No.

3) How does the picture being dark help too much? Unless you are disputing the photo as having been taken there?

This has never been a fine.
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Mr_Mark
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 09:58
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It being dark reinforces my defence of invisible signs
I've not complained about no one replying to the message and if that's my lack of planning then so be it its neither here nor there so I've been told off and yes i should have thought about it but as i was under the impression i wouldn't have to serve my defence until a couple of weeks before my court date i missed it
I will take a hard copy into the courts and post a copy to UKCPS just to cover all bases but it clearly states in the papers from court that i can send all info electronically so i have complied with the court order and in good time
As a novice i have read the paperwork from the courts and have complied so i dont see the problem I'm sure the courts take into consideration that no everyone is a legal expert
The advice from this site has been invaluable and I believe with the help furnished I can win even with my rookie defence
If I lose I'll pay up simple as that but I hopefully wont
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 10:14
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IN 3) however you dont actually raise any of that!

You just state it is "ambiguous" - that it does not show wehre it is parked. So, youre disputing the location. Thats the conclusion reached on reading that, to me. What you could have said is = the picture was clearly taken in the dark, so dark only the number plate showed up

Do you have pictures showing the signs arent illuminated and are quite dark?
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Mr_Mark
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 10:29
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I have pictures showing the area 2 of and the signs are high up and unlit also the carpark has no lighting I think I've posted these but I'll repost if the site allows

Attached Image

I can only attach the one as I have used too much space
I presume I'm allowed to speak in court and can explain fully about the reasons why I was there etc
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Mr_Mark
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 10:44
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Update I've just spoken to the court and the claimant has not submitted the evidence in time
I have been advised by the court to email to the same one I submitted my statement and defence info to and tell them
They advised me that the judge will be made aware of this and will decide what to do so fingers crossed he is a bit of a sticker for the rules
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 11:51
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You can ask that the court gives no relief from sancitons
This is a firm with a long history of litigation so has no excuse that they dont know the rules
Send a letter to the court as well, on file, stating that you have not been served as per order of X date and on Y date you confirmed the court did not have a copy on file.
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Mr_Mark
post Tue, 5 Nov 2019 - 11:55
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Thanks I will do that today 👍
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Mr_Mark
post Thu, 13 Feb 2020 - 18:04
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Update
A letter came today they discontinued the claim so its all over biggrin.gif
Many thanks to all for the advice and help i dont think this would have happened without it
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 09:05
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Check with the court that they have the same notice!
WHen was your court date?
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