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hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 22:25


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OP, try looking at this from the CEO's perspective.

They see an unattended vehicle on DYL.

They look around. Nothing seen.

Prima facie a contravention has occurred. They create, issue and serve a PCN, all of which takes time.

They do not see you, neither do you see them therefore they've departed the scene by the time of your return.

They are not clairvoyant.

If you were engaged in an exempt activity away from the car then tell the authority who, now knowing what the CEO could not, are required to consider the matter de novo and make the appropriate decision.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473324 · Replies: 12 · Views: 80

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 22:15


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hcandersen - are you an ex adjudicator?


No. I've been called a few things in my life, but never that!

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473320 · Replies: 52 · Views: 1,353

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 22:09


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OP, we need to see photos of the bays opposite and the traffic signs therein.

The Permit Parking Area sign with 'except in signed bays' means that any bays which are marked may NOT be for the permit holders specified on the PPA sign:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made

If they are, then IMO a motorist may rely on this to mean that it cannot be a PPA because such markings are not permitted and that in the absence of any road markings at their location no contravention can occur.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473316 · Replies: 3 · Views: 35

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:59


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The council sent a letter.

The recipient is able to rely upon it.

They are not presumed to know what we know.

It cannot just be batted away as 'an error'.

The council cannot 'escape the fact' that they have misinformed the OP.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473313 · Replies: 24 · Views: 420

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 17:09


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CC was issued prematurely because it was issued on day 28 of a PCN issued on 11 Jan...or served on 11 Jan, depending on whether you believe the CC or their letter of 5 March!

And they've directed or informed you of two contrary options and governing legislation.

Can't wait to see what enclosure comes with the OfR.

And if it's a Stat Dec all the better because you can then add duplicity to their crimes i.e. you told me 4 grounds then you only gave me 3, and the missing one is the one on which you intended to rely!

And then we complain to the council. You can't complain to parking because in their evident confusion you could not rely on being treated fairly.

Would be my advice.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473259 · Replies: 24 · Views: 420

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:04


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The OP made the point in post #1

The car is on an operating lease so the company is the registered keeper at DVLA.

So any thoughts of adjudication are not relevant, it seems clear the OP would not want to even get involved in trying to get the registered keeper to make reps against a NTO in order to transfer liability to them so that they could submit their own reps and go to adjudication on the basis of less-than-certain grounds.

I read them as being pragmatic.

Submit a challenge no later than 28th by all means, but without proof, be prepared to pay the discount.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473194 · Replies: 17 · Views: 233

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 10:52


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Strictly speaking it should be neither!

The OP did not display any permit as far as this thread reveals, so 19 is not applicable.

And we know that adjs don't attach much weight to the distinction between 'permit' holder and 'resident's permit' holder.

So IMO it should be 16 but this would not win at adj and would not persuade the council either.

OP, do not get your hopes up on this point.

You were in a 'permit parking area' and parked in a parking place subject to the restriction indicated on the sign:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made

and the sign is at Item 5, Part 3 Sign Table

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made

DYLs within a PPA are perfectly OK.

I'm interesed in 'On the other side of the road were white markings but not on the side where we parked' as this could be a defence depending on whether these are 'signed bays' and what restriction applies.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473190 · Replies: 11 · Views: 190

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 16:32


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The adj's letter to you advising of registration of your appeal etc. will tell you by when the authority should supply a copy of their evidence. What does it say?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473071 · Replies: 52 · Views: 1,353

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 16:12


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It's not whether a sign complies with TSRGD, this does not place a duty on the council.

This is placed by LATOR and the council's order.

Whether the order has a provision which taken on its own 'designates' the parking place is not the issue because, read as a whole, an order - and LATOR for that matter - require a parking place to be signed with a compliant traffic sign.

And it's not there.

A motorist is permitted to park, look for a traffic sign 'in or in the vicinity' of the parking place and then comply.

There is no such sign in the vicinity - the No Entry post would be laughed at by the adj.

I would take care to not make the adj think you read the sign before the event but only after the fact based on the authority's photos.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473065 · Replies: 29 · Views: 327

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 15:47


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Did you put in place mail forwarding arrangements with Royal Mail when you moved - standard practice for most people?

If you did, then we must draw this to TEC's attention.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1473054 · Replies: 5 · Views: 91

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 11:51


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Your points go to mitigation only, they do not form a statutory defence.

Therefore you are asking the authority to exercise discretion.

According to you:
You knew you were not parked wholly within a space, but in mitigation you'd made very effort to do so given the location of other vehicles and recognising that you should maintain reasonable distances from the cars fore and aft to enable them to manoeuvre.

You bought a ticket which was displayed correctly.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472974 · Replies: 7 · Views: 85

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 10:29


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Do not criticise or imply criticism of the CEO, it would be counter-productive.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472955 · Replies: 7 · Views: 85

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 09:16


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'Newham Council office of Parking Correspondence'?


The address is a PO Box. Where do you intend to deliver your letter?

IMO, the Town Hall/Civic Centre because you need a central administrative building, not a departmental outpost that may not admit the general public.


Mark the envelope with the correct postal address, also write 'delivered by hand', hand it to a receptionist and for your records make a note of their name and the time/date.

And keep a copy of the letter.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472943 · Replies: 15 · Views: 195

hcandersen
Posted on: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 08:25


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OP, as per Neil B you must show us the documents you've got. This is your first and only action.

At present we have no idea where you are in the enforcement and appeals procedures and as these are governed by time, including potentially barring you from taking the matter any further, we must know what stage you've reached.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472931 · Replies: 3 · Views: 73

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 18:10


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simply argue that it is highly unlikely that it was issued at 10:10:00 and that as long as it is 10:10:01 or after then it satisfies the requirement.

Who cares when it was issued, wrapped, enveloped, stuck under a windscreen, the regs don't as has been spelled out.

The PCN says it all, and it's improper: a contravention at 10.00, as it states clearly, cannot give rise to a penalty because the authority are not empowered to demand one.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472847 · Replies: 54 · Views: 759

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 18:03


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OP, more facts pl. Pl confirm the following:

At this end of Grafton Road the parking place runs continuously from no. 51 to no. 77.

The area to be suspended was '4xbays o/s 73-77.'

In respect of the area to be suspended the relevant traffic signs are situated o/s no. 67/69 and 75/77.

These signs did/did not carry a suspension notice.

The only suspension notice was situated on a tree o/s no. ***. (If true).

You posted 'There is a sign on one tree and not the tree where my car was parked.'. The real question is, however, where were the suspension notices located?

Inadvertently, you could misleading us because your total focus is on what the sign(singular, but you will confirm) said.

My focus is on whether the area to be suspended was signed correctly, irrespective of the sign's contents. To do this the council as a minimum had to place a notice on the last traffic sign before the area commenced and the one at its end, GSV suggests o/s no. 67/69 and 75/77. The tree is neither here nor there, a motorist does not go to a tree to read traffic signs, they go to proper poles carrying traffic signs.

If the sign o/s the flank walls of nos. 67/69 did not carry a sign, then IMO this is your primary argument because this was your direction of approach to the location. Followed closely by there not being a sign on the traffic sign o/s 75/77, if true.

More facts pl before you fire-off your challenges.

To be blunt, pl forget about the semantics of o/s being outside or opposite ( opposite??), it's frivoulous and merely undermines your credibility!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472845 · Replies: 7 · Views: 101

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 08:26


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There are 3 stages to the appeals process, the first 2 being representations to the council, the last an appeal to the adjudicator.

You are still at stage 1, making representations to the council. This is free and in your case providing these are submitted no later than 23rd the discount is preserved.

If this is a first-time contravention then by all means submit reps (to arrive to later than 23rd) if only to apologise and ask them to exercise discretion.

IMO, they're unlikely to cancel so this is probably just going through the motions. The important point is to either pay the discount or have submitted reps by 23rd.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472678 · Replies: 15 · Views: 195

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 23:17


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The driver parked on the footway in the mistaken belief that because they were not 'on' the DYL, they had found a way around the DYL restriction.

Unfortunately, they were not only in contravention of the DYL, they added parking in a road other than on the carriageway to the list of contraventions.

Given the observation period, there would appear to be no defence against the contravention.

I cannot see any procedural improprieties so far. (the 0845 reps fax charge would be less than the cost of a first-class stamp)


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472659 · Replies: 15 · Views: 195

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:23


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Point taken.

I still feel it's bordering on, if not actually, unfair to require the use of the form and post given that no such requirement is placed upon challenging a PCN.

OP, irrespective of what you write you must esablish whether reps may be submitted by other means. Give them a call because the 'by post first-class option' wold not guarantee receipt by tomorrow.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472266 · Replies: 44 · Views: 1,387

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:06


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I don't see any point in writing to the authority for info which, if drafted properly, the reps would require in a notice of rejection in any event.

but I believe I would have parked the car in the residents bay on 21 January 2019. The notice shown in the pictures taken by the council is right next to my car yet I never noticed it. I do not have any proof of it

OP, the photos show where your car was at the time of the contravention, and you parked it! So there's no issue with belief in this regard, only whether you recall seeing the sign.

Presumably you didn't, therefore this is the total of your evidence: when I parked on **** there wasn't a sign in situ and I can only conclude that this was erected later. As it turns out, I was out of the country for a few days after the PCN was served (what evidence?) and therefore I shouldn't have been surprised that when I did find my car - the council having moved it into a bay on the opposite side of the road - there wasn't a PCN in situ, not that I was expecting one, and I was left scratching my head as to whether I was having a senior moment because I rarely park on that side of the road.

I am challenging this PCN on the grounds that the contravention did not occur because no advance warning was given of the suspension. In addition and separately I would ask the council to exercise discretion to cancel the PCN in the circumstances of this case or alternatively to re-offer the discount as the absence of a PCN did not give me the option of paying the discount.

If the authority do not cancel the PCN, then they should supply the suspension log for sign, including details of the date of the application and date and time of erection of the sign in question.

Would be my take.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472258 · Replies: 9 · Views: 108

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:30


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@cp, you make it sound too simple IMO.

Yes, you can make informal representations for as long as the Notice to Owner has not yet been served.

A recipient could make as many as they liked, but the duty on the authority is not seen in law as a requirement to continually respond to reps which make only the same point, they must introduce new arguments or new evidence in support of existing arguments.

As I read this, the OP has had at least 2 bites of the informal reps cherry already. I cannot see an adjudicator giving too much time to a PI argument in this instance.

OP, the last day of the 28-day period is 20th March, tomorrow.

And I cannot see an online/email option in the NTO, only postal. You must check this otherwise you could miss the deadline.

IMO, you should NOT use their form, it is not a requirement/limiting condition which they are empowered to impose, it's there for their administrative convenience. I'm not even certain about the statement of truth being a mandatory requirement:

(e)in general terms, the form and manner in which an appeal may be made.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472217 · Replies: 44 · Views: 1,387

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 09:48


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23.59 21/03/2019

2 days hence.

Time for action before enforcement action kicks off again.

In practice, you need to submit to TEC before 4pm tomorrow, preferably today.

PCN dated *** and all subsequent notices were sent to address at which you did not live because authority unknowingly used out of date address supplied by DVLA who were in the process of updating your details - I had notified them soon after moving - finally making the amendement to their records on ****, see enclosed copy of V5C.

You only became aware that anything was amiss when you received the NOE on *****.

An unfortunate conflict of timing.

These are the essential, unpadded, aspects.


(Just out of interest, what address is on the NOE, is it exactly the same as on your V5C? Interesting to know whether enforcement agents even used the DVLA records).:
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472180 · Replies: 31 · Views: 417

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 09:01


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The OP's opening post:


I have recently received a NtO from Warwickshire County Council for 'Parking wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space (21)'. I am looking to appeal on the basis the sign was (1) non-compliant and (2) defective.


No mention of the sign not being there and yet this is the direction of travel of the thread.

OP, only you know whether you saw the sign. Some say it's better for us to not ask the question for fear of getting the wrong answer or whatever. Suffice to say, if you did not see the sign, which the photos show clearly adjacent to your car, then say so.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472164 · Replies: 16 · Views: 225

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 08:35


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Pl post the other pages of the 'Right to Appeal' form.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1472162 · Replies: 35 · Views: 813

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:39


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Yep, except we don't need streetview, we have an OP who lives on the spot.

Take a photo with the traffic sign in the foreground showing 8-10 and the continuous single yellow line up to the location of the alleged contravention. Try and capture all relevant facts in one photo if possible.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1471976 · Replies: 14 · Views: 187

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