Police Witness Statement, False Corroboration |
Police Witness Statement, False Corroboration |
Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,203 |
Hi
I have pled not guilty for allegedly doing 101mph on the M1. I wasn't speeding and therefore know the police have no evidence to use against me. I have received my date to appear in court which is 09 March 2018. I have called the CPS to request evidence of the alleged offence and they said that I should contact the police to get the evidence. Any advice on how to move forward would be great Thanks |
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Mon, 29 Jan 2018 - 11:35
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 11:14
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#121
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Member Group: Members Posts: 564 Joined: 15 Nov 2017 Member No.: 95,103 |
Anyone on here ever tried ‘lawful rebeliion’? You state that you do not recognise the jurisdiction of the court, based on the fact it stares in the Magna Carter that every freeman deserves a trial by jury? http://lawfulrebellion.info/what-to-say-if...ged-into-court/ The only relevant bit in Magna Carta (1297) is that NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right Not much to say about juries in any form really... just judgement of your Peers, and even the 1297 Charter is a good sixty years before the Justices of the Peace Act. |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 14:24
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#122
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Anyone on here ever tried ‘lawful rebeliion’? You state that you do not recognise the jurisdiction of the court, based on the fact it stares in the Magna Carter that every freeman deserves a trial by jury? http://lawfulrebellion.info/what-to-say-if...ged-into-court/ The only relevant bit in Magna Carta (1297) is that NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right Not much to say about juries in any form really... just judgement of your Peers, and even the 1297 Charter is a good sixty years before the Justices of the Peace Act. What is "lawful judgment of his peers" if it is not trial by jury? -------------------- |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 15:39
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#123
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 15:56
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#124
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Member Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 9 Nov 2016 Member No.: 88,346 |
Anyone on here ever tried ‘lawful rebeliion’? You state that you do not recognise the jurisdiction of the court, based on the fact it stares in the Magna Carter that every freeman deserves a trial by jury? http://lawfulrebellion.info/what-to-say-if...ged-into-court/ The only relevant bit in Magna Carta (1297) is that NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right Not much to say about juries in any form really... just judgement of your Peers, and even the 1297 Charter is a good sixty years before the Justices of the Peace Act. A quick Google search sees this: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/801648/bo...gmaster-pinnock Not quite the same situation, but using the same logic in a Magistrates court - your mileage may vary. -------------------- I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:26
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#125
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Member Group: Members Posts: 564 Joined: 15 Nov 2017 Member No.: 95,103 |
Anyone on here ever tried ‘lawful rebeliion’? You state that you do not recognise the jurisdiction of the court, based on the fact it stares in the Magna Carter that every freeman deserves a trial by jury? http://lawfulrebellion.info/what-to-say-if...ged-into-court/ The only relevant bit in Magna Carta (1297) is that NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right Not much to say about juries in any form really... just judgement of your Peers, and even the 1297 Charter is a good sixty years before the Justices of the Peace Act. What is "lawful judgment of his peers" if it is not trial by jury? A bench of magistrates? |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 17:19
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#126
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Once magistrates had been invented, yes. Whether a District Judge (MC) qualifies is more doubtful, I suggest. But at the time of signing, the phrase must have referred to juries.
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 17:25
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#127
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Judgment by peers OR law of the land? Sounds like no Jury is needed?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 17:35
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#128
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Anyone on here ever tried ‘lawful rebeliion’? You state that you do not recognise the jurisdiction of the court, based on the fact it stares in the Magna Carter that every freeman deserves a trial by jury? http://lawfulrebellion.info/what-to-say-if...ged-into-court/ There is an interesting article here https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land, of particular interest are the "Freeman successes" and "Freeman failures" sections. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 17:46
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#129
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Most Freeman successes seem to amount to “educating the judge” just before they get sentenced.....
This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 17:54 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 17:55
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#130
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Yes, this is now wholly off topic.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:11
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#131
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,203 |
Hi Again
just going over some of the variables in my upcoming case and: It states in the ACPO code of practice for using a radar that: ''The road area covered by the radar should be in view of the operators. '' The officer has stated that he used the radar on the south bridge (London gateway services) My question is, 'If the officer was measuring my oncoming speed from the south bridge when I was approaching, how did he have a clear view of the road when I passed under the bridge heading towards the second set of speed markers'' --> You see you have to pass under the bridge that he is standing on, whilst he is taking a radar measurement of your speed. I could understand him being able to use a stopwatch to measure timeframe/speed, but not a radar. Here is the north and south bridge on Google maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/London+...33;4d-0.2639984 Ben This post has been edited by ben1974: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:12 |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:16
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#132
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I didn't think radar (or laser) was used in the speed measurement here?
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:20
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#133
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,203 |
It was a PUMA average speed detection calculator, in pre-fed mode
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:21
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#134
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Member Group: Members Posts: 951 Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Member No.: 39,849 |
It states in the ACPO code of practice for using a radar that: ''The road area covered by the radar should be in view of the operators. '' It was established many many posts ago that it wasn’t radar being used. The officers statement confirmed that. Where on earth did you find information that PUMA was a radar device? To be honest, you’re clutching at straws. The wrong straws in this case. The other issue you have to face is when you are asked what speed you were doing when you’re in court. You’ve admitted on here that you were doing 85 and you’ve happily posted full details of your car reg number on the officers statement. Be very careful. This post has been edited by baggins1234: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:26 |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:23
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#135
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,203 |
Yeah I guess.
Does anyone know what a PUMA average speed detection calculator is? |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:27
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#136
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Yeah I guess. Does anyone know what a PUMA average speed detection calculator is? Put in a distance, in this case the 0.175 between the two blocks on the road. Press a button when you pass the first one. Press a button when you pass the end one. Speed = distance / time. Police officers go on a course to learn about the button pressing so are presumed to be fairly competent at it. Certainly if challenged they will say the were trained to operate an approved device. This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:30 |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 16:28
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#137
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Member Group: Members Posts: 951 Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Member No.: 39,849 |
Yeah I guess. Does anyone know what a PUMA average speed detection calculator is? Yes. In pre fed mode it is a stop watch. The officer has dialled in a prefed distanced to the device. As per his statement he starts the time when you crossed the first point and stopped it when you crossed the second point. The PUMA already knew the distance, it now knows the time and calculates the average speed. |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 17:48
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#138
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Police officers go on a course to learn about the button pressing so are presumed to be fairly competent at it. Certainly if challenged they will say the were trained to operate an approved device. It'll be a short cross-examination then... -------------------- |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 17:57
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#139
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Police officers go on a course to learn about the button pressing so are presumed to be fairly competent at it. Certainly if challenged they will say the were trained to operate an approved device. It'll be a short cross-examination then... Depends whether they are quizzed about ACPO guidelines about any other equipment. Where are the calibration lines. Where are the photos. Radar, Lidar, Lidl. |
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Tue, 27 Feb 2018 - 18:07
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#140
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
Just caught up on this. I haven't looked at the question since the "I was doing 85mph" reared its head. (Last I saw was "I wasn't speeding").
The biggest problem you may face if you persist with your Not Guilty plea is what you plan to say (assuming you give evidence) if you are asked what speed you contend you were doing? As I see it you would have three choices: 1. "I don't know" (not very helpful to your case) 2. 85mph (a slam dunk for a conviction) 3. 70mph or less (and lie under oath/affirmation). Or do you plan not to give evidence but will rely instead on discrediting the officer sufficiently under cross-examination so that the court cannot be sure that you were speeding at all? You have to remember that the offence that the prosecution have to prove is that you were exceeding the speed limit, not that you were travelling at 101mph. If you plan to change your plea you should do so asap so that your trial can be vacated. This will minimise any extra costs you might face. You will probably lose a small percentage of your guilty plea discount (perhaps reduced from 33% to 25%) but you should get away with just £85 costs. If you plan to opt for a Newton Hearing you should similarly inform the court. A hearing with evidence will still be necessary but normally Newton Hearings do not attract extra prosecution costs. |
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