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Driving down the hard shoulder (m6)
mik333
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 15:20
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Hello, I wanted to know is you were caught driving down the hard shoulder on a Smart Motorway what is the penalty like? Is it something like 3 points a £100 fine? I am asking because I was driving down the M6 the other day and I'm not a frequent motorway user but its also not my first time. I was getting ready to take my junction on the left J4. I then used the left lane which is a hardshoulder? I know that a red X means a closed lane over the poles but the all the sign were blank. As I drove half a mile down I suddenly snapped and realised I might be driving on a hardshoulder. But then I started to see trucks pulling into my lane when my junction came a little closer. I probably driven down the shoulder for like about half a mile. However as I do remember the 60 limit being illuminated at some point but I don't know if I've pulled into the wrong lane abit too early. icon_redface.gif icon_redface.gif icon_redface.gif

Yes I know I'm stupid and I couldve put someone at risk and I really regret it. However I'm worried sick if I will get any points because I've had a clean record so far. And also fires a question, if I did get caught by a CCTV camera how long would the ticket take to come to my doorstep?
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post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 15:20
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Jlc
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 15:37
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It's an endorseable offence - either by way of fixed penalty (3 points £100) or at court maximum of £2,500.

Having said that I doubt you will have been caught if not stopped at the time.

I don't believe it's an offence that requires a NIP within 14 days, so they would have 6 months to start a prosecution. (If they knew the driver - which would be requested if they were to proceed)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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mik333
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 15:39
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 16:37) *
It's an endorseable offence - either by way of fixed penalty (3 points £100) or at court maximum of £2,500.

Having said that I doubt you will have been caught if not stopped at the time.

I don't believe it's an offence that requires a NIP within 14 days, so they would have 6 months to start a prosecution. (If they knew the driver - which would be requested if they were to proceed)



I thought so. I'm currently looking through this forum to see if anyone has been on the same boat as me but most of them have been stopped by police officers on the road.
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Fredd
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 15:47
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This rather depends on what part of the M6 we're talking about, doesn't it? For instance J4 to J10A is hard shoulder running only when the signs say you can, but J11A to J13 uses all-lane running, where the signs are blank unless the left-most lane is closed.


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Jlc
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 16:30
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Indeed, personally I am not familiar with this piece of road. My answer was on the basis of an offence being committed.

Is there a camera enforcement system in place?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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mik333
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 16:40
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 16:47) *
This rather depends on what part of the M6 we're talking about, doesn't it? For instance J4 to J10A is hard shoulder running only when the signs say you can, but J11A to J13 uses all-lane running, where the signs are blank unless the left-most lane is closed.



QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:30) *
Indeed, personally I am not familiar with this piece of road. My answer was on the basis of an offence being committed.

Is there a camera enforcement system in place?


Well I jump on the M6 from the M69. I looked it up and I believe its from J2 to J4. So I'm driving towards B'Ham.

There is speed enforcement, like one boxed yellow camera on the left side of the gantry. And there are some sort of grey cctv look alike cameras https://i.gyazo.com/526dac78a474f8189140b923c73e18ec.jpg like this.

I mean I havent heard of anyone getting a ticket for these types of offences recently.
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Ocelot
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:31
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The grey one does look like a CCTV camera.

Technically the camera operator could alert the Police that someone had briefly driven along the hard shoulder, but IMHO they are likely to be more interested in traffic incidents such as accidents and congestion. You are more likely to get done if your actions were observed by a police officer at the time.
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Fredd
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:36
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QUOTE (mik333 @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:40) *
Well I jump on the M6 from the M69. I looked it up and I believe its from J2 to J4. So I'm driving towards B'Ham.


Well if it's between J2 and J4 that's a conventional section with a dedicated hard shoulder, not a smart motorway, so you would have been committing an offence. It does seem unlikely that you'll hear anything more about it, but only time, in the form of a 14 day wait for a NIP, will tell.


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mik333
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:42
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:31) *
The grey one does look like a CCTV camera.

Technically the camera operator could alert the Police that someone had briefly driven along the hard shoulder, but IMHO they are likely to be more interested in traffic incidents such as accidents and congestion. You are more likely to get done if your actions were observed by a police officer at the time.


So Highways England operate the CCTV's? Hopefully nothing comes through my letter box.
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mik333
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 22:21
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:36) *
QUOTE (mik333 @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 17:40) *
Well I jump on the M6 from the M69. I looked it up and I believe its from J2 to J4. So I'm driving towards B'Ham.


Well if it's between J2 and J4 that's a conventional section with a dedicated hard shoulder, not a smart motorway, so you would have been committing an offence. It does seem unlikely that you'll hear anything more about it, but only time, in the form of a 14 day wait for a NIP, will tell.


Thanks, crossing my fingers. This doesnt really seem like a known case so I'm try to not worry about this. However, if I do or do not get a NIP this is a lesson learnt. icon_redface.gif
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Tartarus
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 09:30
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General principle of the hard shoulder allowance on the M6 for that stretch (J4 - J10) is you can use it when you are getting off at the next junction, which appears to be what you were doing. Was up there last month, and I was doing that even without the signs illuminated informing me that I could, and not received a ticket, so either I was still doing it correctly, or they didn't see me.
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Fredd
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 12:41
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Unless it's changed recently, only J10 has through-junction running, other than that that section has a "dynamic hard shoulder" without a hard shoulder through the junction. Quite honestly I'm surprised that anyone can work out what they are and are not expected to do driving up that motorway.


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Ocelot
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 16:09
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QUOTE (mik333 @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:42) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:31) *
The grey one does look like a CCTV camera.

Technically the camera operator could alert the Police that someone had briefly driven along the hard shoulder, but IMHO they are likely to be more interested in traffic incidents such as accidents and congestion. You are more likely to get done if your actions were observed by a police officer at the time.


So Highways England operate the CCTV's? Hopefully nothing comes through my letter box.


I'd imagine so. The Police don't monitor CCTV cameras themselves, even in shopping centres, never mind roads.
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cp8759
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 16:25
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:09) *
QUOTE (mik333 @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:42) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 18:31) *
The grey one does look like a CCTV camera.

Technically the camera operator could alert the Police that someone had briefly driven along the hard shoulder, but IMHO they are likely to be more interested in traffic incidents such as accidents and congestion. You are more likely to get done if your actions were observed by a police officer at the time.


So Highways England operate the CCTV's? Hopefully nothing comes through my letter box.


I'd imagine so. The Police don't monitor CCTV cameras themselves, even in shopping centres, never mind roads.

More importantly, traffic cameras don't read number plates, it's not what they're designed for and they don't have the resolution. If there happens to be an ANPR camera very close-by, the police could try matching up the make/model/colour on the traffic camera to the ANPR hits, but it would take one very determined cop with nothing better to do.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 16:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:25) *
.........More importantly, traffic cameras don't read number plates, it's not what they're designed for and they don't have the resolution. If there happens to be an ANPR camera very close-by, the police could try matching up the make/model/colour on the traffic camera to the ANPR hits, but it would take one very determined cop with nothing better to do.


We've seen clips on police documentaries where they have.
But have been where people had been copped reversing down (jammed) sliproad or hardshoulder cos they missed the slip.


On the M6 /hard shoulder to slips, they do vary in length.... J5 northbound, really do have to keep an eye on the solid to dashed white line, stay out too long and you miss the slip (DAMHIK)
J6 southbound, can commit onto hard should from around half a mile before.
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cp8759
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 16:50
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:47) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 17:25) *
.........More importantly, traffic cameras don't read number plates, it's not what they're designed for and they don't have the resolution. If there happens to be an ANPR camera very close-by, the police could try matching up the make/model/colour on the traffic camera to the ANPR hits, but it would take one very determined cop with nothing better to do.


We've seen clips on police documentaries where they have.
But have been where people had been copped reversing down (jammed) sliproad or hardshoulder cos they missed the slip.

Depends on the cameras really. I know of several cases where members of the public have reported offences based on the (mistaken) belief that a nearby traffic camera will have clocked the number plate, and upon reviewing the video the resolution to read the number plate just isn't there.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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