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ParkingEye taking me to court, Parking was over by 16minutes whilst shopping
VrAJ1
post Mon, 4 May 2020 - 20:55
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Hi all,

Newbie here as i've been researching elsewhere and taking action (or lack of rather, more info below), then came across this site.

What's happened so far:

Back in november 2019, was doing my christmas shopping in a retail park, can't remember the dates but had a few letters from parkingeye sent to me for a fine/invoice. When doing research i read that I should ignore and wait for them to send another letter from small claims court stating to explain my side/defence, to which I did. I wrote my defence and sent it.

I recieved an "acknowledge receipt from hm courts and tribunals service" of my defence on march 1st 2020..since then i didnt hear anything back from the parking eye..however on april 28th 2020 I recieved a "notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track" from a county court stating that it is now a defended claim and is suitable for allocation to the small claims track. It also gives the offer for both parties to attend a mediation, this may sound like a dumb question as i've never been through this before but should I tick yes for this? Or say no and go straight to small claims as a defendant?

To give a bit more background, parking eye is giving me the invoice of £100 stating that I was over the 3 hours allowed stay for customer car parking by 16 minutes. In my defence letter i stated that it was very busy in the retail park because everyone was doing their christmas shopping, with long queues etc and that I have (still with me) two receipts amounting to £180 spent in the retail park during my time there. I believe there should be grace periods especially around busy times of the year like the lead up to christmas etc. It was impossible to stay in there for under 3 hours taking into account browsing stores, deciding what to buy, then queuing to pay, then driving out of a busy car park. Just wanted to hear any opinions/thoughts on where I stand and what I should do.

Thanks in advance!
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post Mon, 4 May 2020 - 20:55
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Jlc
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 10:48
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QUOTE (VrAJ1 @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 11:14) *
...where the BPA has advised its members to give 20mins for entry and exist after max time allowed...

Can you provide a source for this?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Lynnzer
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 10:52
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QUOTE (VrAJ1 @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 11:14) *
I mean it says "the following directions apply to this claim...each party must deliver copies of all docs on which that party intends to rely at the hearing"

It then goes on to say "in cases of this type the docs and info sent to court should include: letter making the claim and any reply, details of what has been said to have been done negligently, why it is said, damage caused, details of injury or loss, the response of the allegedly negligent party".

I was planning to write a statement explaining why i shouldnt pay the fine based on the fact that i was a paying customer (with receipts attached as photographs, but will bring in person to court) and that i had overstayed by 16minutes where the BPA has advised its members to give 20mins for entry and exist after max time allowed...

Thought it was 10 minutes plus time for consideration:
13 Consideration and Grace Periods
13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms
and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’
with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver
decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park,
you must provide them with a reasonable consideration
period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your
parking contract. The amount of time in these instances
will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a
minimum of 5 minutes.
13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not
apply where a parking event takes place.
13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of
parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for
a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay
& Display), this would be considered as a parking event
and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added
to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN.


13.2 above is the main point here. By parking it appears that the consideration period can't be added on to that time.


--------------------
The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Umkomaas
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 11:41
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The Grace Period allowance(s) should be calculated in line with the BPA Code of Practice in force at the date of the event (November 2019). The current one, reducing things to 5 minutes, applies only from the start of 2020.

So the OP needs to check out the version in play immediately before the current CoP, and work from that. There will be links to all past CoPs on the BPA website.
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VrAJ1
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:23
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Would any one oject/advise against (essentially) copying and pasting parking eyes claimant statement to which they replied to my initial defence statement that they sent to me and the court? Its about 2 pages but will probably shortened the paragraphs. Reason i ask is because i have no idea how to respond, and if what theyre saying can be upheld in court etc. I just received their statement today

QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 12:41) *
The Grace Period allowance(s) should be calculated in line with the BPA Code of Practice in force at the date of the event (November 2019). The current one, reducing things to 5 minutes, applies only from the start of 2020.

So the OP needs to check out the version in play immediately before the current CoP, and work from that. There will be links to all past CoPs on the BPA website.



Yes so this pcn was back in november 2019..does this change things? If so how?

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 11:48) *
QUOTE (VrAJ1 @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 11:14) *
...where the BPA has advised its members to give 20mins for entry and exist after max time allowed...

Can you provide a source for this?



This is from bpa code of practise prior to 6th jan 2020 (so relevant to my case as the pcn was issued november 2019)


13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally
permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable
grace period in addition to the parking event before
enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace
period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.

13.4
You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the
private car park after the parking contract has ended, before
you take enforcement action. If the location is one where
parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end
of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

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Jlc
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:39
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If only you could add them up...

But one is enforcement upon entry and the other is on exit.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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VrAJ1
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:42
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So what does that mean? My defence is invalid on that part?

This post has been edited by VrAJ1: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:43
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Jlc
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:44
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No, you still argue that the contract commenced upon payment and you had 10 minutes after the expiry of the ticket at the time it was issued.

(They are using the perimeter times only - sharp practice)

There's no blanket 20 minutes...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:45


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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VrAJ1
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 11:49
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Member No.: 108,624



Ah, this was a free parking area in a retail park...

It was a 3 hour free parking for customers to which i stayed 3 hours 16min
I also have receipts amount to about £180 to prove i was a customer there...
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Jlc
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 12:13
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Still tiny margins. They are using perimeter times whereas the parking can't begin until you read the signs. 6 minutes is not unreasonable to park and do this. They will claim your parking contract being at the moment you entered at the perimeter even before you saw the signs...

Then the 10 minutes grace at the end.

Notwithstanding you spent a significant amount - how perverse would it be to charge someone under these margins! They will argue the restrictions are to ensure a regular turnover of customers.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 12:14


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Lynnzer
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 16:06
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 13:13) *
Still tiny margins. They are using perimeter times whereas the parking can't begin until you read the signs. 6 minutes is not unreasonable to park and do this. They will claim your parking contract being at the moment you entered at the perimeter even before you saw the signs...


It would surely fail the test of a consumer contract inasmuch as nothing had been offered at the point of entry. The contact could only start at a driver reading the sign then accepting it by remaining.
The fact that it is a Time On Site arrangement is perverse since how would a driver know what time he entered without prior notification. It would also likely be construed as time parking instead without sufficient attention drawn to it. The BPA doesn't give a definitive time for parking then considering the sign but it would be argued that such a small margin would be reasonable. Reliance on the BPA Code of Practice means the contents are subject to sensible reasoning in this instance.



--------------------
The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Jlc
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 16:34
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 17:06) *
It would surely fail the test of a consumer contract inasmuch as nothing had been offered at the point of entry. The contact could only start at a driver reading the sign then accepting it by remaining.

Unless the contract on offer made reference that the clock had started running at the perimeter. Made really obvious and clear by using a tiny font under the main event.

There's a chance they'll discontinue if the OP plays brinkmanship. They may not want to risk such an argument with a genuine customer.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 16:36


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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