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TWO Claim Forms from Gladstones Solicitors for Horizon Parking
mrrollout
post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 14:04
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Hello.

Last month, the driver received two Claim Forms issued by Gladstones Solicitors Limited on behalf of Horizon Parking. Each Claim Form relates to 3 separate parking overstays on 3 separate days. Claim Form 1 was at a retail park, and Claim Form 2 was at a supermarket.

The driver's workplace has very limited parking onsite, and as such by the time said driver arrives, the car park is full. The driver therefore has no choice but to park at the surrounding supermarket or retail park. Note that the driver does sometimes shop at these places, though doesn't have many receipts from the time of the parking breaches.

The driver ignored all reminders and chasers, based on advice said driver had read online that parking firms such as Horizon had no power to claim penalties from drivers. Although such firms rarely take court action, said driver appears to be one of the unlucky ones.

All contraventions in Claim Form 2 were from the driver's previous car. In Claim Form 1, one was from said driver's previous car, and two from the driver's current vehicle.

For Claim Form 1, the driver only has one original PCN. The rest are reminders from Horizon, and subsequent chasers from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd and Zenith Collections.

The driver does not have any PCNs for Claim Form 2. Said driver can't even remember receiving them. If he/she did, they will have been disposed of. All said driver has for two of the contraventions from Claim Form 2 are reminders from Horizon and subsequent chasers from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd and Zenith Collections (note the driver doesn't have any documentation at all for the third contravention in Claim Form 2).

The driver has already logged onto MCOL to acknowledge both claims, without disputing jurisdiction. The driver has let things slip a bit so for Claim Form 1, the driver has only have under a week left, so not much time left to return a defence.

The driver has provided ImageShack photo links to the following:

• Claim Form 1:
• Claim Form 2:
• Parking sign at retail park location for Claim Form 1 (I can't say for sure the height of the sign, but I would take a guess at roughly 10-12 feet):
• PCN from one of the contraventions in Claim Form 1:
• Example chasers from DRP in Claim Form 1:
• Example chasers from Zenith in Claim Form 1:
• Gladstone instruction to pay costs for a PCN in Claim Form 2:
• Gladstone's Letter Before Claim for Claim Form 2 (I don't have one for Claim Form 1):

Claim Form 1 wants £575.17 and Claim Form 2 wants £523.76. Being the main provider in the home and a parent of twin toddlers, the driver simply cannot afford this, so is really hoping she/she can be advised of a letter template he/she can respond with to absolve said driver of this charge. If you need any more information, please let the driver know.

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

This post has been edited by mrrollout: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 - 12:02
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post Wed, 12 Feb 2020 - 14:04
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Lynnzer
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 07:31
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QUOTE (mrrollout @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 08:08) *
QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Tue, 4 Aug 2020 - 18:12) *
QUOTE
Can anybody offer any tips on what to do at the hearing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU


Good morning Umkomaas,

Thanks for the link, I didn't know the hearing would take place in an office environment. However, I was after advice more specific to my own hearing.

Regardless of who was driver, will my case hold up if I as Keeper just keep schtum about the driver (unless asked), and just stick to the line that the NtKs did not meet POFA compliance?

Then from what I summarised above, is there a good chance the case law and Data Protection policy I'm bringing to the table (Beavis, Southampton judgement, Pace v Lengyel, ICO policy etc) will stand me in good stead?

Or does everything fall to pieces if I have to tell the judge who the driver was?

With all due respect your Honour but the identity of the driver is for the claimant to prove.


--------------------
The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Umkomaas
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 07:40
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If you are asked the direct question as to whether or not you were the driver, you answer truthfully. If you try to be too clever you will risk really peeing off the Judge. We see very few cases where the Judge asks those questions. They are more interested in the signage and whether the claimant has a watertight contract.

But all of it is unpredictable. It shouldn't be an adversarial experience. No one is 'on trial', no one is going to prison.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 07:40
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Civil hearings are usually held in what looks like an office or small conference room, its not overly intimidating, while you're expected to behave in a respectful manner it doesn't have the more defined formality of a criminal court and if you make a faux pas it won't be held against you. The judge in my (non-parking) case was fairly friendly and did only seem to want to get to the facts of the case (which we won), he even cracked a joke or two at the start (according to my Barrister he often did that and it was to try and get witnesses comfortable as it was his way of getting to the facts).

If you can honestly say you are unsure who was the driver at the time, then you can say that. Despite it being an obvious question (you would think) it seems rare for the claimants representative to ask who was driving, perhaps they would rather leave that as an assumption for the judge than get a 'not me' back!



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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mrrollout
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 09:49
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 08:31) *
With all due respect your Honour but the identity of the driver is for the claimant to prove.


Say this to a Judge if he asks who the driver was? unsure.gif I would be more likely to say this to the Judge if the Gladstones rep asks the Judge to ask me who the driver was.


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 08:40) *
Civil hearings are usually held in what looks like an office or small conference room, its not overly intimidating, while you're expected to behave in a respectful manner it doesn't have the more defined formality of a criminal court and if you make a faux pas it won't be held against you. The judge in my (non-parking) case was fairly friendly and did only seem to want to get to the facts of the case (which we won), he even cracked a joke or two at the start (according to my Barrister he often did that and it was to try and get witnesses comfortable as it was his way of getting to the facts).

If you can honestly say you are unsure who was the driver at the time, then you can say that. Despite it being an obvious question (you would think) it seems rare for the claimants representative to ask who was driving, perhaps they would rather leave that as an assumption for the judge than get a 'not me' back!


Thanks for this Rookie. Stuff like this is the fuzzy good stuff I need to hear before Friday! smile.gif If the Gladstones rep asked me who was driving, I would respond with Lynnzer's suggestion above. I certainly hope he doesn't though, and as Umkomaas also advised, that the Judge doesn't ask me either.

I will be as prepared as I can with all the POFA and case law excerpts, the Data Protection policy, presenting the numerous debt collection letters and emphasising the lack of visibility of signage.


QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 08:40) *
If you are asked the direct question as to whether or not you were the driver, you answer truthfully. If you try to be too clever you will risk really peeing off the Judge. We see very few cases where the Judge asks those questions. They are more interested in the signage and whether the claimant has a watertight contract.

But all of it is unpredictable. It shouldn't be an adversarial experience. No one is 'on trial', no one is going to prison.


Thanks for the response Umkomaas. I would certainly not lie to a Judge, though a part of me would crumble inside if he asked me the question. It's very reassuring to learn he is unlikely to ask though.

Even though there's no risk of doing time out of this, it would feel like a sentence if I lose and am ordered to pay the full costs of 3x £150 p/PCN + Court costs. In my head, I am preparing at the very least to be ordered to pay the minimum charge of the PCNs (3x £80), which itself would be a lot of money for me at the moment.
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Umkomaas
post Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 10:20
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QUOTE
It's very reassuring to learn he is unlikely to ask though.

I'm afraid you're putting words in my mouth. I actually said:

QUOTE
We see very few cases where the Judge asks those questions. They are more interested in the signage and whether the claimant has a watertight contract.

You should be prepared for any eventuality in an unpredictable situation. You need to rehearse your strategy should you be asked that direct question. There are more hurdles for the claimant to get over than who the driver was.

Not wanting to throw any lifeline straws your way, but Gladstones are discontinuing cases by the shed-load. Often as late as 24 hours prior via email. It might be worth a quick call to the court to check whether your hearing is still scheduled to go ahead.
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mrrollout
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 13:40
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Good afternoon,

Some good news to report. The ANPR hearing did go ahead last Friday, and I'm delighted to report I won! biggrin.gif

Gladstones sent an independent rep. He spoke with me briefly in the waiting area, but didn't try any scare tactics - just covered off what I had filed with Court and the Claimant, and then explained how the hearing would be run. To be fair, he seemed harmless enough.

The hearing took place in an actual court room. The Claimant rep spoke first, but the Judge picked a number of holes in his statements. He was displeased that no-one from Horizon had turned up, so as a result he wouldn't allow any questions to be asked of me. The Judge also noted the signs were very hard to read, (even with the A4 photocopy in front of him) and decided on that basis that no Contract existed between me and the Claimant.

After the rep gave his statements,he allowed me to speak, and I gave my defence as summarised in my Witness Statement; The Judge did not interrupt me, except when I mentioned the Debt Collection letters which he didn't want to know about. I got the impression though that he'd already made up his mind even before we entered the room, as he delivered his judgement as soon as I finished speaking.

Not only did I win though, but the Judge also allowed me to claim £95 loss of earnings (I asked for £106, but apparently £95 is the max), and also £6 for parking! After the hearing, the rep took my bank details to pass onto the Claimant (I just gave my Sort Code and Account Number).

So one down, one to go - the next hearing is on Thursday 13th August. That again is for 3x PCNs (non-ANPR) at an adjoining car park also operated by Horizon.

I'm just wondering if I'll get the same judge. Might be a good thing and a bad thing, good in the sense that there is already a precedent set for him wiping out a claim of this nature, bad in the sense that if he sees me again and notes its for another 3x PCNs, he might think "You're just taking the p-s now, I'll make you pay the minimum charge of the PCNs at least to teach you a lesson!"

Hopefully based on last Friday's verdict, Gladstones will swiftly issue a notice of discontinuance before the hearing!
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ostell
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 15:48
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Well done. All the best for the next case. Perhaps a letter to the solicitors, headed "Without Prejudice save as to costs" mentioning their failure in this case and suggest that there is a drop hands agreement between you, in that they will drop the case and each side pay their own costs. Perhaps a copy to the parking company.
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