PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PPC NTK For parking on private verge
surfergirl007
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 20:55
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



Hello everyone, many thanks to those who have set up and contributed to this forum/website.

I received the Notice to keeper recently stating the car was parked on a verge on a private lane. It was dark when the car was first parked. The main car park has been closed (covid) and the small car park to the left in the photo was only for permit holders. So in order to access the beach people have been parking on the verge or public roads.

Historically the entrance to the small car park on the left had a sign (opposite the verge were the car was parked) and has always been for the car park only with no mention of road or verge parking. It's thought that the PPC put it up that morning then issued a ticket. Either way it would have been difficult to see due to size, their being no lighting (rural area pitch black) and it being positioned on the entrance to the existing car park.

I appealed to the PPC stating no sign was present. They then produced pictures showing the sign present and rejected the appeal.

After that we found this site and did some reading. I saw that the Notice to Keeper had been issued late after the 14 day period. Although in the appeal to the PPC there was no specific reference to who was driving you could possibly deduce who was driving and argue it.

I think that’s it. Please let me know if any more info would be helpful.


This post has been edited by surfergirl007: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 07:12
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 14)
Advertisement
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 20:55
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
DWMB2
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 21:05
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,363
Joined: 9 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,205



They may or may not have been able to deduce the identity of the driver from the keeper's appeal, but they definitely could from your post on here. Edit it so that you do not identify the driver.

If you show us what you said in the appeal members will be able to advise whether or not it identifies (or infers identity of) the driver.
Is that Frequently Asked Questions image from your original NtK? If not, upload a photo of the back of your NtK too.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 22:29
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



Thanks for the help, I used the online appeal and don't have a copy of what I put in the appeal. The FAQ is from the appeal response. Heres the back of the NTK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DWMB2
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 22:34
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,363
Joined: 9 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,205



The second to last paragraph of your original post still identifies the driver


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 22:48
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



thanks again
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DWMB2
post Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 23:13
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,363
Joined: 9 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,205



QUOTE (surfergirl007 @ Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 21:55) *
After that we found this site and did some reading. I saw that the Notice to Keeper had been issued late after the 14 day period. Although in the appeal to the PPC there was no specific reference to who was driving you could possibly deduce who was driving and argue it.


You can still ID the driver from that paragraph. Try the above. (You may also want to edit the image of your PCN, you can see some of your personal details through the black redaction marks)

Might not matter that much if the driver was ID'ed in your appeal though. Do you have any drafts of it saved anywhere? If not, a Subject Access Request to the parking company ought to provide you with a copy.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 06:47
Post #7


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



Great I'll request that today.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Tue, 20 Apr 2021 - 21:59
Post #8


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



Here's what was written in the appeal...

The land on which I was parked sits outside of the formal parking area in which tickets/permits are required. No signs setting out any terms existed at the time of issuing a ticket for parking on this land. In fact no ticket was issued. Subsequently no contract was entered into and no charge required and no breach of contract can be demonstrated. With the above in mind I will not be providing your company with the requested charge.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 07:20
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



I'm going to appeal to POPLA on the following basis...

That I did not see the signage. The signage was not clear in so far as it was not lit up and impossible to see or read on entry. In addition it is positioned on the entrance to the crapark giving the impression it is related to parking within the car park as per the previous signs.

The access road is owned by the holiday park who are the freeholders with a right of way covenant for the council due to the positioning of council properties to the west. Subsequently, the PPC have no proprietary interest in the land without which they are unable to offer contracts for parking (see case of VCS v. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, a binding decision at the level of the High Court). In addition, given that they do not own the land they are unable to to provide written authorisation as stated in the signage. On this point any remedy for parking without Alliances permission can only be addressed with the freeholder of the land under a tort of trespass.

The charge of £100 is a penalty rather than a claim for liquidated damaged and threatens further penalty of £60 if not paid within 28 days. Quite clearly the threat of penalty and further charges fails the tests set out in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyres and used in the case of Alfred McAlpine Capital Projects Service v Tile Ox Ltd 2005 EWHC 281.

Does the above seem a reasonable defence?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 10:15
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Your final point WILL fail. PE v beavis.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 16:36
Post #11


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



Thanks, I'll take that out. I'm trying to appeal through IAS but it does not recognise the PCN number and/or registration?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DWMB2
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 16:40
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,363
Joined: 9 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,205



The advice on here is generally not to bother with appealing to IAS, as unlike POPLA it is basically a kangaroo court that pretty much never finds in the appealing party's favour


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
surfergirl007
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 17:34
Post #13


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Apr 2021
Member No.: 112,332



Yes, I've just realised that. So the option is to just sit and wait for a letter to appear in court?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glacier2
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 18:34
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 10,695
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 1,131



Yes. Just standby for the deluge of letters demanding payment.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 22:31
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



I disagree


Right now IAS IS accepting some appeals. You have to hammer hammer HAMMER the ppc with statement evidence and repeating it all.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 20:25
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here