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[NIP Wizard] Accused of speeding 106mph on M25 with no temporary speed limit by camera. J15 to 16 Iver.
Zach
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50
Post #1


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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2018
Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25 Junction 15 to 16, Iver, United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I recall being abroad and arrived at Heathrow at 20.00 hours on 30/01/2018. My vehicle was parked at Heathrow airport and I began my drive home accompanied by my wife.

I recall seeing a flash around the junction of 15 and 16 whilst passing. There were no red temporary lights and I am confident there was no temporary speed limit. I use this motorway regularly and I presume this is all to do with these smart motorways that are activated in regular national speed limit conditions?

I also have a query on whether Iver is Surrey's jurisdiction and whether this can form a defence? I am certain that the area is covered by Metropolitan police or Thames Valley Police.

The speed I was recorded doing was 106mph. This may well be accurate cannot be certain. I was caught using an automatic camera device.

I have a clean license thus far.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 12:50:49 +0000

This post has been edited by Zach: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:54
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post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:50
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Zach
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:42
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 10:16) *
QUOTE (Zach @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:42) *
Although the alleged offence occurred on 30th January 2018, the NIP was received by 2nd February 2018 and completed a few days later. If court paperwork can arrive after the time frame than surely law has a time limit on this?

Any prosecution has to commence within 6 months. That doesn't mean the defendant gets notification within 6 months.

Previously the Police had to 'lay information' with the court within that time frame and the court would then send out the paperwork, usually within about 1 month. (So 7 months was not unusual)

Nowadays, a different procedure is used (see here) but the net effect is about the same. You could contact them now to see if the matter has progressed - there's no risk in doing so. Otherwise, it could be another couple of weeks before you hear and you can check if everything is in order. All presuming they have the correct address and the post arrived of course.


Thanks again for the reply.

I didn't photocopy the NIP so did not keep the contact details. I believe it was Surrey constabulary. Is is them I should contact as I don't know what court they would use.
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Jlc
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:51
Post #22


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See if you can find contact information for the camera unit on that constabulary as a first point of contact.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Zach
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 09:11
Post #23


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Thank all for the advice. I should be over the moon as I have called Surrey camera unit who have confirmed that the matter was no further actioned on 24th July 2018. However, it all seems odd as I was happy to plead guilty if necessary?!
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Jlc
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:48
Post #24


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Bizarre - you'll never find out why...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 20:27
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In other threads Surrey have taken 10 months to send out SJP. So perhaps they or the courts have a huge backlog and they are culling some of the non-fixed penalty or course offences.

Hopefully the person on the phone didn't mistake NFA with not yet been sent out.
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Zach
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 08:53
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 21:27) *
In other threads Surrey have taken 10 months to send out SJP. So perhaps they or the courts have a huge backlog and they are culling some of the non-fixed penalty or course offences.

Hopefully the person on the phone didn't mistake NFA with not yet been sent out.


I understand the potential for mistake. She asked for usual security checks to confirm identity including vehicle VRM. She was very clear that the matter has been no further actioned on the 24th July 2018 and didn't have the reasons why so could not provide it. She confirmed the matter was now over and no prosecution was going to be followed.

I am sure/hope that somebody working in that environment would understand what NFA means.
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cp8759
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 22:17
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If you really want to know why they dropped it you could put in a GDPR request.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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The Rookie
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 06:12
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From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Or more correctly a DPA 2018 request.....


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 14:55
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 07:12) *
Or more correctly a DPA 2018 request.....

By virtue of the European Communities Act 1972, the GDPR has direct effect in UK law, the DPA 2018 just makes alterations to the extent that the GDPR allows national law to tailor how GDPR is applied.

A subject access request is now made under article 15 of the GDPR (Right of access by the data subject), see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/...679&from=EN (Yes sorry that site is pants compared to legislation.gov.uk but we've leaving anyway so who cares). If you actually read the DPA 2018 you'll see that nothing in that act creates a right to make a subject access request.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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southpaw82
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 15:37
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 07:12) *
Or more correctly a DPA 2018 request.....

Thanks for moving the thread along.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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KS79
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 21:39
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QUOTE (Zach @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:50) *
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2018
Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25 Junction 15 to 16, Iver, United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I recall being abroad and arrived at Heathrow at 20.00 hours on 30/01/2018. My vehicle was parked at Heathrow airport and I began my drive home accompanied by my wife.

I recall seeing a flash around the junction of 15 and 16 whilst passing. There were no red temporary lights and I am confident there was no temporary speed limit. I use this motorway regularly and I presume this is all to do with these smart motorways that are activated in regular national speed limit conditions?

I also have a query on whether Iver is Surrey's jurisdiction and whether this can form a defence? I am certain that the area is covered by Metropolitan police or Thames Valley Police.

The speed I was recorded doing was 106mph. This may well be accurate cannot be certain. I was caught using an automatic camera device.

I have a clean license thus far.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 12:50:49 +0000



Seems like we have both been caught by the same camera. Installed December last year as I use the M25 regularly and no issues when gantry cameras were off.
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