speeding and pcj, clarification needed |
speeding and pcj, clarification needed |
Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:48
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 3 May 2018 Member No.: 97,804 |
A friend of mine riding a motorbike spots a mobile speed camera ahead of him . he stops before the camera suspects he may have been speeding but not sure , panics and covers his number plate up turns around and speeds off.
As soon as he finds out the police were attempting to find him he contacts the police over the incident and tells all admitting he obscured plate and sped off . He is informed that he was speeding and now they are trying to charge him pcj and speeding . The speeding there is no issue over but the pcj is the concerning thing .At what point was he committing a pcj because he did not know for certainty that he had committed speeding . And what do u think penalties are like to be for such a thing if found guilty . TIA |
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Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:48
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Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:51
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Get them to seek professional advice ASAP. That allegation has the potential for a prison sentence.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 18:40
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Covering the plate up to avoid detection has been found to be PCoJ, in addition why would you cover it if you didn’t think you were speeding?
As noted this has the potential, very real, for a jail sentence, he needs to get a professional on this, this isn’t something to do on an Internet forum. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 16:20
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
As noted this has the potential, very real, for a jail sentence, he needs to get a professional on this, this isn’t something to do on an Internet forum. Agreed. This was a very foolish thing to do, and it could have serious consequences. Note that the PCoJ "act" must have occurred after the event from which it could reasonably have been expected would result in an investigation: QUOTE The course of justice starts when: --CPS Legal Guidance https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/publi...arging-standard- an event has occurred, from which it can reasonably be expected that an investigation will follow; - investigations which could/might bring proceedings have actually started; or - proceedings have started or are about to start. In this case (apparently), and in the classic case which this one seems to have almost explicitly "copied", the speeding would have been the event and the covering of the reg no would have been the act, supporting the charge of PCoJ. In contrast, covering/removing the number plate prior to such an event would not have met this requirement. --Churchmouse |
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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 06:46
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 3 May 2018 Member No.: 97,804 |
oh yes foolish to do agreed.But done in panic mode, a moment of unclear thinking of the consequences .He is seeking help , i wonder if theres chance of a lesser charge being applicable or another angle to try .
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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 07:11
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Really his best option is to be 100% helpful and constructive, that way an actual court case is less likely and if it happens a suspended sentence more likely.
I really can’t see he has anywhere he can push them other than by being as remorseful as possible. How fast he was recorded at will also be a factor, but only a small one in my opinion. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 07:14 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 13:51
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 617 Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Member No.: 6,174 |
There was a case recently There was a case recently that mirrored this one, here is is.
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/biker...rison-sentence/ The law regarding motoring offenses never ceases to amaze me, if I break into a house with cameras and I am wearing a balaclava to disguise/cover my identity they wouldn't dream of doing me for PCOJ, do the same on a vehicle and it's game on. Dwain |
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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 14:28
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
There is no legal requirement to display your face, but there is a legal requirement to display the registration of your car.
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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 15:42
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The law regarding motoring offenses never ceases to amaze me, if I break into a house with cameras and I am wearing a balaclava to disguise/cover my identity they wouldn't dream of doing me for PCOJ, do the same on a vehicle and it's game on. Its got nothing to do with motoring offences, its to do with perverting the course of justice, this is about taking an action after an offence has been committed to prevent detection. Besides a burglar will normally be spending time behind bars anyway making the PCOJ possibility less of a disincentive. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 16:53
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Really his best option is to be 100% helpful and constructive, that way an actual court case is less likely and if it happens a suspended sentence more likely. I would be 100% speaking to a solicitor and following their advice. It sounds like he has already helpfully told the police everything they need to complete the offence, no need to tighten the noose further. Counting on the police dropping it because he seems like a nice chap seems high risk, especially as we don't know what the alleged speed is. |
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Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:12
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 3 May 2018 Member No.: 97,804 |
yes hes getting legal advice crown court date has been set for april .It seems so heavy handed almost like reading science fiction .
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Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:46
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
OK, so the case has progressed a lot further than you indicated.
Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence, the court wil take it very seriously and will not consider it heavy handed at all, it is considered as cutting to the heart of the justice system. There are lots of cases of people turning a minor speeding offence into a jail sentence by attempting to pervert the course of justice. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120923 To be honest I see little chance of an an acquittal so he’s into damage limitation, being aware of the implications of the conviction on future job prospects and travel where visas are required. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:51 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 10:07
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
As soon as he finds out the police were attempting to find him he contacts the police over the incident and tells all admitting he obscured plate and sped off . Out of interest, what caused him to find out the police were looking for him? What did the police do? -------------------- |
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Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 21:57
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 3 May 2018 Member No.: 97,804 |
looks like only chance is mitigation by sound of it ..not looking good at all .when u consider there is not an injured party anywhere yet he faces jail .
oh he got to hear about it from a friend of his . |
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Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 17:50
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 3 May 2018 Member No.: 97,804 |
soly has indicated that a sentence should not affect innocent parties , i dont know about this at all.if he goes to jail it would affect his frail partner ,mental health wise if there was any significant fines involved or even costs if he is in jail there is real possibilty of being arrears with mortgage and savings are meagure in fact his partner wouldnt cope .
would sentencing take this into account how much ideas ?? |
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Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 18:50
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
would sentencing take this into account how much ideas ?? It might. But such circumstances cannot be seen as a "get out of Jail Free" card. Sentencing for such a matter is a complex business and it is impossible to say how a judge might view this particular example. |
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Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 15:29
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 3 May 2018 Member No.: 97,804 |
on a side note policeman that interviewed him came in with premise of an informal meeting at his home but when he arrived he immediately cautioned suspect and threatened to arrest suspect and search his house or allow to search house voluntarily.is this legal does it make any difference to the case .
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Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 21:51
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
It is fairly common for the police to extol the virtues of co-operating voluntarily versus obtaining warrants.
Whether your friend co-operates without seeking legal advice is their choice. However, they should remember two key points. No matter how pleasant they are, the police aren't on his side, and taking legal advice from them is a poor idea. Secondly, statutory processes like arrest and search warrants have checks and balances to ensure some parity between the police and anyone being investigated - the obvious one here being the right to free legal representation if you are interviewed at a police station, even if not under arrest. That's why it is advisable to get independent legal advice rather than relying on the police's suggestions. |
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Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 00:57
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Anything that happened after the alleged offence isn’t going to provide a defence to it.
Even if the Police did something wrong, and the evidence from the interview was struck out somehow (very very unlikely) would he still have a defence? I don’t think so, -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:09
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,611 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
It is fairly common for the police to extol the virtues of co-operating voluntarily versus obtaining warrants. You are correct except that if he’s arrested the police don’t need a warrant to search his home. Anything that happened after the alleged offence isn’t going to provide a defence to it. Even if the Police did something wrong, and the evidence from the interview was struck out somehow (very very unlikely) would he still have a defence? I don’t think so, I’m not sure why you say it’s very very unlikely, it’s a fairly frequent occurrence in the courts I know of. It’s not so much whether he would have a defence as whether the prosecution could prove their case without the admissions made in interview. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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