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speeding and pcj, clarification needed
pjb12345
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:48
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A friend of mine riding a motorbike spots a mobile speed camera ahead of him . he stops before the camera suspects he may have been speeding but not sure , panics and covers his number plate up turns around and speeds off.
As soon as he finds out the police were attempting to find him he contacts the police over the incident and tells all admitting he obscured plate and sped off .
He is informed that he was speeding and now they are trying to charge him pcj and speeding .
The speeding there is no issue over but the pcj is the concerning thing .At what point was he committing a pcj because he did not know for certainty that he had committed speeding .
And what do u think penalties are like to be for such a thing if found guilty .
TIA
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post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:48
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Jlc
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:51
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Get them to seek professional advice ASAP. That allegation has the potential for a prison sentence.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 18:40
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Covering the plate up to avoid detection has been found to be PCoJ, in addition why would you cover it if you didn’t think you were speeding?

As noted this has the potential, very real, for a jail sentence, he needs to get a professional on this, this isn’t something to do on an Internet forum.


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Churchmouse
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 16:20
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 18:40) *
As noted this has the potential, very real, for a jail sentence, he needs to get a professional on this, this isn’t something to do on an Internet forum.

Agreed. This was a very foolish thing to do, and it could have serious consequences.

Note that the PCoJ "act" must have occurred after the event from which it could reasonably have been expected would result in an investigation:

QUOTE
The course of justice starts when:

- an event has occurred, from which it can reasonably be expected that an investigation will follow;
- investigations which could/might bring proceedings have actually started; or
- proceedings have started or are about to start.
--CPS Legal Guidance https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/publi...arging-standard

In this case (apparently), and in the classic case which this one seems to have almost explicitly "copied", the speeding would have been the event and the covering of the reg no would have been the act, supporting the charge of PCoJ. In contrast, covering/removing the number plate prior to such an event would not have met this requirement.

--Churchmouse
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pjb12345
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 06:46
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oh yes foolish to do agreed.But done in panic mode, a moment of unclear thinking of the consequences .He is seeking help , i wonder if theres chance of a lesser charge being applicable or another angle to try .
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The Rookie
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 07:11
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Really his best option is to be 100% helpful and constructive, that way an actual court case is less likely and if it happens a suspended sentence more likely.
I really can’t see he has anywhere he can push them other than by being as remorseful as possible.
How fast he was recorded at will also be a factor, but only a small one in my opinion.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 07:14


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Dwain
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 13:51
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There was a case recently There was a case recently that mirrored this one, here is is.

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/biker...rison-sentence/

The law regarding motoring offenses never ceases to amaze me, if I break into a house with cameras and I am wearing a balaclava to disguise/cover my identity they wouldn't dream of doing me for PCOJ, do the same on a vehicle and it's game on.

Dwain
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Logician
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 14:28
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There is no legal requirement to display your face, but there is a legal requirement to display the registration of your car.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 15:42
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QUOTE (Dwain @ Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 13:51) *
The law regarding motoring offenses never ceases to amaze me, if I break into a house with cameras and I am wearing a balaclava to disguise/cover my identity they wouldn't dream of doing me for PCOJ, do the same on a vehicle and it's game on.

Its got nothing to do with motoring offences, its to do with perverting the course of justice, this is about taking an action after an offence has been committed to prevent detection.

Besides a burglar will normally be spending time behind bars anyway making the PCOJ possibility less of a disincentive.


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 16:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 21 Mar 2019 - 07:11) *
Really his best option is to be 100% helpful and constructive, that way an actual court case is less likely and if it happens a suspended sentence more likely.

I would be 100% speaking to a solicitor and following their advice. It sounds like he has already helpfully told the police everything they need to complete the offence, no need to tighten the noose further.

Counting on the police dropping it because he seems like a nice chap seems high risk, especially as we don't know what the alleged speed is.
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pjb12345
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:12
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yes hes getting legal advice crown court date has been set for april .It seems so heavy handed almost like reading science fiction .
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The Rookie
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:46
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OK, so the case has progressed a lot further than you indicated.

Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence, the court wil take it very seriously and will not consider it heavy handed at all, it is considered as cutting to the heart of the justice system.

There are lots of cases of people turning a minor speeding offence into a jail sentence by attempting to pervert the course of justice.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120923

To be honest I see little chance of an an acquittal so he’s into damage limitation, being aware of the implications of the conviction on future job prospects and travel where visas are required.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 07:51


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peterguk
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 10:07
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QUOTE (pjb12345 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:48) *
As soon as he finds out the police were attempting to find him he contacts the police over the incident and tells all admitting he obscured plate and sped off .

Out of interest, what caused him to find out the police were looking for him? What did the police do?


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pjb12345
post Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 21:57
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looks like only chance is mitigation by sound of it ..not looking good at all .when u consider there is not an injured party anywhere yet he faces jail .
oh he got to hear about it from a friend of his .
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pjb12345
post Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 17:50
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soly has indicated that a sentence should not affect innocent parties , i dont know about this at all.if he goes to jail it would affect his frail partner ,mental health wise if there was any significant fines involved or even costs if he is in jail there is real possibilty of being arrears with mortgage and savings are meagure in fact his partner wouldnt cope .

would sentencing take this into account how much ideas ??
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NewJudge
post Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 18:50
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QUOTE (pjb12345 @ Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 18:50) *
would sentencing take this into account how much ideas ??

It might. But such circumstances cannot be seen as a "get out of Jail Free" card. Sentencing for such a matter is a complex business and it is impossible to say how a judge might view this particular example.
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pjb12345
post Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 15:29
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on a side note policeman that interviewed him came in with premise of an informal meeting at his home but when he arrived he immediately cautioned suspect and threatened to arrest suspect and search his house or allow to search house voluntarily.is this legal does it make any difference to the case .
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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 21:51
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It is fairly common for the police to extol the virtues of co-operating voluntarily versus obtaining warrants.

Whether your friend co-operates without seeking legal advice is their choice. However, they should remember two key points. No matter how pleasant they are, the police aren't on his side, and taking legal advice from them is a poor idea.

Secondly, statutory processes like arrest and search warrants have checks and balances to ensure some parity between the police and anyone being investigated - the obvious one here being the right to free legal representation if you are interviewed at a police station, even if not under arrest.

That's why it is advisable to get independent legal advice rather than relying on the police's suggestions.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 00:57
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Anything that happened after the alleged offence isn’t going to provide a defence to it.

Even if the Police did something wrong, and the evidence from the interview was struck out somehow (very very unlikely) would he still have a defence? I don’t think so,


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 12:09
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 22:51) *
It is fairly common for the police to extol the virtues of co-operating voluntarily versus obtaining warrants.


You are correct except that if he’s arrested the police don’t need a warrant to search his home.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 01:57) *
Anything that happened after the alleged offence isn’t going to provide a defence to it.

Even if the Police did something wrong, and the evidence from the interview was struck out somehow (very very unlikely) would he still have a defence? I don’t think so,

I’m not sure why you say it’s very very unlikely, it’s a fairly frequent occurrence in the courts I know of. It’s not so much whether he would have a defence as whether the prosecution could prove their case without the admissions made in interview.


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