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Failed to identify the driver
Carmenjorge
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 03:48
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Hello, my husband has received a copy of a letter of a notice of endorsement of driving record with 6 points due to fall of identification of driver on the 25/12/18, and another copy of a letter with the notice of fine and collection order (811£) and the last page is from HM tribunal service about paying the fine before 10 days. The first two pages are copies sent to our old address and the letter from
HM tribunal has been sent to our current address. We moved on 2017 and he changed his address with DVLA straight away. Now we have received this but we have never received the first fine? Was it sent to the old address? We don’t understand why as we changed the address straight away. We don’t know how to proceed but how they can say we did not identify the driver as we don’t know what was the offence, when, which car? Please We just need some advice . Thanks

Another thing we don’t understand it is why in the three letters the name of my husband is not compleete. He has got theree surnames and only appears one. The envelope was a plain white but we have not keep it.
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post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 03:48
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I am Weasel
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 06:05
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When you say "We moved on 2017 and he changed his address with DVLA straight away" what exactly do you mean? Did you change the address on the V5C (aka registration document or log book) of your car(s) or just your driving licence? Please find your V5C and make sure that it has the correct (up to date) address. We have many instances on here where people have not updated their registration documents and end up in the same predicament that you are.

Since your husband was unaware of the court proceedings, he may be able to make a statutory declaration to this effect and this winds back the clock to re-start the prosecution again, but now you husband will be aware and can defend the allegation
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The Rookie
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 06:06
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When he changed ‘his address’ with DVLA did he do the licence AND the vehicle registration document? A very common mistake is people change the licence details but not those of the registered keeper of the car.

It seems very likely the Police have used the old address which may be the one the car is registered to, the offence that triggered the request to name the driver would have been 5-6 weeks before that date and they would have accessed the registered keepers details about 1 week after that triggering offence.

He can make an appointment with the court to make a ‘Statutory Declaration’ which will reset the case back to as if he had just had the ‘summons’ (now a Single Justice Procedure Notice would be used) and he can either try and defend the failure to ID charge or they will usually drop it if he (presuming he was driving) pleads guilty to the original offence (speeding or red light camera usually).

P.S. check the car is taxed!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 06:07


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Carmenjorge
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 07:12
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QUOTE (I am Weasel @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 07:05) *
When you say "We moved on 2017 and he changed his address with DVLA straight away" what exactly do you mean? Did you change the address on the V5C (aka registration document or log book) of your car(s) or just your driving licence? Please find your V5C and make sure that it has the correct (up to date) address. We have many instances on here where people have not updated their registration documents and end up in the same predicament that you are.

Since your husband was unaware of the court proceedings, he may be able to make a statutory declaration to this effect and this winds back the clock to re-start the prosecution again, but now you husband will be aware and can defend the allegation

Hi, I have checked and the V5c is up to date with our current address. We changed both license and V5C when we moved home two years ago. We don’t understand why they send it to the old address and why his nane is not fully written, only one surname when he has got three. Do we need to contact the court then to make the statutory declaration? Thanks so much for your advice.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 07:06) *
When he changed ‘his address’ with DVLA did he do the licence AND the vehicle registration document? A very common mistake is people change the licence details but not those of the registered keeper of the car.

It seems very likely the Police have used the old address which may be the one the car is registered to, the offence that triggered the request to name the driver would have been 5-6 weeks before that date and they would have accessed the registered keepers details about 1 week after that triggering offence.

He can make an appointment with the court to make a ‘Statutory Declaration’ which will reset the case back to as if he had just had the ‘summons’ (now a Single Justice Procedure Notice would be used) and he can either try and defend the failure to ID charge or they will usually drop it if he (presuming he was driving) pleads guilty to the original offence (speeding or red light camera usually).

P.S. check the car is taxed!

Hi, we changed both dvla and v5c when we moved home in 2017. They are both up to date. I don’t understand why they sent the letters to the old address 🤦🏻‍♀️ Thanks so much for your reply

This post has been edited by Carmenjorge: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 07:13
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The Rookie
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 07:18
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If he can prove it was sent to the wrong address he would have a good case.

That said it may be he was named as a driver of a different vehicle (such as a company or hire car) and they had the wrong address on record, in which case any failing by him in not ensuring they had the correct address would impact the defence, but again pleading guilty to the original driving offence would normally see the more serious charge of failing to ID dropped.

Right now the priority is to contact your local court and make an appointment for making the statutory declaration. Once that is done he can start getting the background information to see what the situation is.


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Logician
post Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 10:48
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Does the V5C for the car registered to your husband besides your correct address have his full three surnames or the single surname as on the court documents?

If it has the three surnames, it would tend to confirm that the details with the single surnames and your old address came from a source other than the DVLA, so indicating that it does not refer to your husband's car. Does he recall driving another car in November or December of last year, perhaps a hire car or company car as suggested by The Rookie above?


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Carmenjorge
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 09:55
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Well, just a bit of update. We contact the court, we have an appointment in 2 weeks and my husband asked about the fine and the plate number given to us is from a different car, it not ours or any car he has driven so well the appointment is to aay that we never received the letters so we need to bring the v5 so they know we were not living at that address. But another thing I am worried is about the fine, how you can demonstrate he never drove that car or we dont have anything to do withh that car. It is so confusing.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 11:38
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Why would you have to prove you didn’t know anything of the car in question?

His defence is simple, he couldn’t identify the driver as the request was served on the wrong address and there was no reasonable diligence in trying to track incorrectly addressed notices.

Why they have asked you to take the V5c is beyond me, it’s of no relevant to the SD at all, although I guess it may convince the CPS to drop the case.

At the SD he’ll be asked how he pleads, if it were guilty he would be sentenced straight away, if ifs not guilty he may be asked for a summary of his defence and then a trial date will be set.


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Carmenjorge
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 21:29
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Hi, my husband went to make de statutory Declaration. He found out about the fine that day, where it was, the plate number and so on (when he made the appointment for the statutory declaration he didn’t catch the plate number properly)So the plate number is from a bus so he said that he is a bus driver so he might be guilty but he wanted to check before with his employer if that’s all right, so the hearing was adjourned until October so he can check with his employer. He went to speak with his manager and he is guilty as he was driving that day on that route. The manager also checked his employees file and the copy of the fine is not there as it should be and they can’t find any form updating the address although he is sure he changed it. So now when he goes to court again he will be saying he is guilty of the fine and it looks like is guilty of not changing the address. The question is should he say is guilty for not changing the address? Would it matter if he says he is sure he changed it (as he did with the v5 and driving license) but it looks it didn’t come up in the system. Anyway, that is the less of our worries as we received this letter yesterday saying all sorts of things about disqualifying of driving. They never mentioned that, they said it will fine the fine plus 4 or 6 points why they mention that? It’s so scary. Thanks for your help.

That’s the letter
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 22:04
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He’s only charged with certain offences, no need or benefit (or relevance really) in admitting more.

If he’s charged with speeding as well, the usual tactic is a plea bargain to plead guilty to speeding IF they drop the failing to furnish charge (but only if).


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Redivi
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 22:44
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So now when he goes to court again he will be saying he is guilty of the fine and it looks like is guilty of not changing the address.

Never plead Guilty to a charge of failing to identify the driver if there is the slightest chance of a successful defence
The extra insurance penalties for five years dwarf any discount on the fine

He can't be Guilty of not changing his address
Failing to tell an employer your new address isn't, to my knowledge an offence and certainly not a traffic offence
Even if it were, he says he updated it and the company doesn't. That's hardly proof beyond reasonable doubt

Silly question
What address is on his payslips and, if it's the old one, why hasn't he noticed ?
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Carmenjorge
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 06:28
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 23:44) *
So now when he goes to court again he will be saying he is guilty of the fine and it looks like is guilty of not changing the address.

Never plead Guilty to a charge of failing to identify the driver if there is the slightest chance of a successful defence
The extra insurance penalties for five years dwarf any discount on the fine

He can't be Guilty of not changing his address
Failing to tell an employer your new address isn't, to my knowledge an offence and certainly not a traffic offence
Even if it were, he says he updated it and the company doesn't. That's hardly proof beyond reasonable doubt

Silly question
What address is on his payslips and, if it's the old one, why hasn't he noticed ?

There is no address in the payslips 😑
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bill w
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 11:20
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QUOTE (Carmenjorge @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 06:28) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 23:44) *
So now when he goes to court again he will be saying he is guilty of the fine and it looks like is guilty of not changing the address.
.............
Silly question
What address is on his payslips and, if it's the old one, why hasn't he noticed ?

There is no address in the payslips 😑


But presumably the company does write to him about something occasionally e.g. P60 etc.
Has he ever received anything in the post from his employer since you moved house?
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southpaw82
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 12:00
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QUOTE (bill w @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 12:20) *
QUOTE (Carmenjorge @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 06:28) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 23:44) *
So now when he goes to court again he will be saying he is guilty of the fine and it looks like is guilty of not changing the address.
.............
Silly question
What address is on his payslips and, if it's the old one, why hasn't he noticed ?

There is no address in the payslips 😑


But presumably the company does write to him about something occasionally e.g. P60 etc.
Has he ever received anything in the post from his employer since you moved house?

Why does any of this matter? If the deal is done then the s 172 becomes irrelevant. If it is not done then someone from the company can provide evidence of what address is held on file for the defendant - the manager has already said it is the old address. People seem to be confusing things over what is currently a non-issue.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Redivi
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 12:15
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Do we know if he's been dual-charged ?

I can't find a mention by the Op of what the original offence was
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