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PCN for parking longer than permitted
ohmanbear
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 14:26
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Good Afternoon!

I was wondering if you guys/gals could help me.

I received a PCN about 10 days ago for parking longer than permitted.

I had actually pulled into the road accidentally (following my Satnav blindly and went down the wrong road) but as I was about to go back on myself I received a phone call so I pulled over to take the call. I was speaking on the phone for a good 30 minutes then I was due to be in an appointment for 11am and as I was already parked up I decided against driving my car to the shop and I chose to walk 5/10 minutes instead as it was a lovely day.

Upon returning to my vehicle I noticed a PCN in the window for being there longer than 1 hour (they say I arrived at 10.07 and date of contravention was 11.17 so 10 minutes over), I was wondering if it still counts whilst I was pulling over to take a call? Or if there is anything I could do to challenge it?

Please see picutre below



Many thanks in advance for any info
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post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 14:26
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Mr Mustard
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 14:57
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Could you put up a picture of the sign please.

In some circumstances, which may include yours, a council cannot issue a PCN until after 10 minutes have expired after a period of permitted parking. The council have jumped 1 minute early in my view.


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rosturra
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:04
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Have they ticketed you too early?

You arrived at 10.07.
You were parked legally at 11.17.

You were parked "illegally" at 11:08
But the 10 minute grace period ends at 11:18.

So you were in the grace period at 11:17.


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ohmanbear
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:09
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Hello,

Thanks for your feedback.

With regards to the sign, I checked on google maps and its just a sign saying:

"Mon-Sat

8am - 6pm

1 hour


No Return within 1 Hour"

With regards to the grace period, how would I challenge it by just saying what you mentioned, that it was issued too early?

Annoying thing is I missed the guy by 2 minutes I was there around 11.19/20am as I checked the time immediately upon seeing the PCN.

Thanks again

Before I send them an e-mail, I am wondering if the 10 minute grace period applies to where I was parked, as I did not need to buy a ticket to park there, does it still apply to me?
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Mr Mustard
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:39
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Which town is Skipton St within? & then I'll go look at the sign on google after which i can answer your question.


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hcandersen
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 17:16
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IMO, all the necessary evidence is here:

PCN accepting that the location is a free parking place;
OP's clear statement that they parked within, that they were parked within and the alleged contravention occurred within the operational times of the parking place on the day;
No evidence on which the authority may rely that parking took place any earlier than 11.07;
That the permitted parking period under the regs commenced at 11.07;
Clear regs which state that :-
No penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes.
11.17 does not exceed 10 minutes;

Game over, march out...

But not until they've writhed a bit because it is not coincidence that 11.17 is the time of the alleged contravention, this arises not because of the misapplication of regs which they know, but from the application of regs which they don't. So they're likely to squirm at first.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 17:18
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ohmanbear
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 08:01
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Many thanks for your help everyone, much appreciated.

Have responded via email, will update you with their response.

Thanks again,
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Paddyposh
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 13:56
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QUOTE (rosturra @ Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:04) *
Have they ticketed you too early?

You arrived at 10.07.
You were parked legally at 11.17.

You were parked "illegally" at 11:08
But the 10 minute grace period ends at 11:18.

So you were in the grace period at 11:17.


Sorry to hijack, is this definitely the case?

I was parked on Friday in Altrincham, via ringgo, expired at 13:24, PCN issued at 13:35, so 11 minutes.

Do I have a case to appeal?
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 13:58
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QUOTE (Paddyposh @ Tue, 29 May 2018 - 14:56) *
QUOTE (rosturra @ Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:04) *
Have they ticketed you too early?

You arrived at 10.07.
You were parked legally at 11.17.

You were parked "illegally" at 11:08
But the 10 minute grace period ends at 11:18.

So you were in the grace period at 11:17.


Sorry to hijack, is this definitely the case?

I was parked on Friday in Altrincham, via ringgo, expired at 13:24, PCN issued at 13:35, so 11 minutes.

Do I have a case to appeal?

Dunno start your own thread and post your own PCN, council photos and copy of ringo confirmation


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ohmanbear
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:22
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Good Morning All,

Just an update regarding my PCN, they have emailed me back with the following:

"Date and Time of Contravention: 11/05/2018 at 11:17

Location: SKIPTON STREET

Parking Contravention: 30 Parked for longer than permitted





Dear



CHALLENGE AGAINST YOUR PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN)



Thank you for your correspondence challenging your Penalty Charge Notice.



We have carefully considered your comments but are not willing to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice for the following reason(s):



We acknowledge that you advise you believe you have been wrongly ticketed and that the 10 minute grace period should have ended at 11.18am however, the vehicle was observed at 10.07am and then issued with a PCN at 11.17am, as such we are confident that the PCN was issued correctly.



Consequently, we find insufficient mitigation to warrant cancellation of the case and the charge still stands.



You now have the following choices:

You will be required to pay the full amount of £50.00 as the discount period has now elapsed. Payment will close the case and you will be unable to make a further challenge against the charge.
You can continue to contest the charge. If payment is not received within the 28 days from the date of the Penalty Charge Notice, we will send you a Notice to Owner form. This will offer you the opportunity to pay the full charge or to submit a formal representation against the charge by completing and returning the form.
Should your representation be unsuccessful, you will be able to take your appeal to an independent adjudicator.




How to pay:

By phone on 0844 826 6593. Lines are open all day, every day (24 hours). Please have your PCN number and credit or debit card ready. There will be no extra charge for using your card to make payment. Please note that some card types may not be accepted.
Online at www.lancashire.gov.uk/parking and click ‘pay online’.




Yours sincerely







pp. Peter Bell

Regulation & Enforcement Manager"


Would anyone recommend any other course of action other than paying the £50? I would be grateful for any help or information.

Many thanks,
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stamfordman
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:30
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No point in paying if discount lost - proceed to adjudication.

However, not sure why they are not reoffering £25 at challenge stage - rather mean.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 10:31
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ohmanbear
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 13:40
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What would the process involve if I were to proceed to adjudication?

Thanks again for any replies or information.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 14:16
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"If payment is not received within the 28 days from the date of the Penalty Charge Notice, we will send you a Notice to Owner form. This will offer you the opportunity to pay the full charge or to submit a formal representation against the charge by completing and returning the form.
Should your representation be unsuccessful, you will be able to take your appeal to an independent adjudicator."


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hcandersen
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 14:34
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Don’t wait, write back.

PCN *******

I refer to the above PCN, my challenge dated *** and your rejection dated ****.

By way of clarification only, please confirm that your evidence comprises an initial observation time of 10.07 aganst which all oher times and periods must be referenced, a restriction which limits parking to 1 hour, a permitted parking period which therefore terminatd at 11.17 and the amended regulation 4 of the General Regulations which prohibits any penalty being demanded until a period of 10 minutes has elapsed since the end of the permitted parking period. Please further confirm that you believe that the regulations may be unilaterally amended by the authority such that a penalty is payable in the 10th minute following the end of the permitted parking period i.e. a period of 9 minutes having elapsed.

Please seek the advice of your legal officers if in any doubt.

Regards,
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ohmanbear
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 11:14
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Thank you so much again everyone, I have emailed them the response you kindly drafted for me I will update you once I get a reply.

Many thanks again
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