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Lease company sending notice 60 days later, excuse 'fixed to windscreen'
blad4
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 17:55
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Hi not sure if I am going about this right, but surely we have the right to wait for something to come in the post before we need to appeal? Because what if someone else was driving my car, or the ticket attached to the windscreen just was not there when the driver returned to the car?

So when I did receive the notice via email (not yet via post), I saw that the fine was actually issued 60 days earlier. I emailed back saying

Hi, in relation to the two emails I received on the 13th of this month, each outlining a parking fine, one of them is dated 60 days ago, and I have not received the notice in the post as of yet. After contacting the parking company, I can confirm I have missed the appeal deadline due to receiving it so late. I have looked into the laws and would not like to go any further if you are happy to accept that somewhere between yourselves and TNC Parking services the mistake was made. Below are the specifics of the email:

With the date and time being

17/08/2018 00:00

They responded with

The fine was originally fixed to the windscreen of the vehicle which would have allowed for this fine to be appealed. Please see a screen shot below of the section of the Parking Charge Notice that advises this:

TNC Parking services have obtained your... issued a parking charge notice which was fixed to the vehicle.. remains outstanding

Arval has written to the parking company and asked them to transfer liability of the fine to your address. It depends on the authority on how quickly they reissue the fine. Once you have received the fine in the post you can either pay or dispute it directly with the parking company.


Now there is no way they are getting my money, even the admin charge will get refunded. I'm just more curious as to the laws a process around this, whether I am incorrect etc
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post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 17:55
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blad4
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:01
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:26) *
£15 is likely entirely unchallenageble. Reference is the bank admin charges.
Its when it gets up to £30+ that you can point out this charge is clealry not purely to cover expended costs but incluides profit, as it does not cost £30 to spend 5 minutessending a standard letter.


Ok so conclusion is leaseholders are still coerced to abide by the private company parking rules in order to save the admin charge, regardless of ongoing/recurring issues between the two parties. And also the point that they cannot discern between an invoice and a penalty is also defunct more because they do not need to do this as opposed to shouldn't.

In principle it means I could do the same thing and send 1000 bogus invoices after establishing the 'reasonable cause' to gain details from the DVLA, netting the lease company £1250.

Unless of course there is a way to make a case against them, that they are not identifying a parking fine/penalty vs. an invoice. I did not sign the contract under the knowledge that I will be paying admin charges on invoices being forwarded, only fines?


This post has been edited by blad4: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:01
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ostell
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:34
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That's why I said get out your contract and look at what it actually says about these charges and when you have to pay them. Many forget to include private parking invoices in their terms and are forced to refund as they haven't followed their own rules.
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blad4
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 15:08
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:34) *
That's why I said get out your contract and look at what it actually says about these charges and when you have to pay them. Many forget to include private parking invoices in their terms and are forced to refund as they haven't followed their own rules.


Yep and I am grateful for that.

Is there any template I should go by when contacting them?
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 16:25
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No, because the first thing you're doing is getting YOUR signed t and c out, which you already hold I would hope,
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blad4
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 22:53
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 16:25) *
No, because the first thing you're doing is getting YOUR signed t and c out, which you already hold I would hope,


Hi yeah the above clause was within the lease T&Cs, which is the contract I signed

This bit:

In respect of any responsibility, claims, liabilities, losses, damages or expenses, including legal fees, and any liability resulting from legislation for the payment of fines or penalties for parking, driving or similar offences or contraventions in connection with the Vehicles (the “Liability”): (a) Arval has no responsibility for the Liability; (b) the Hirer accepts all responsibility for the Liability including taking all appropriate action; and © the Hirer indemnifies ARVAL and holds ARVAL harmless against the Liability. Arval shall be entitled to charge the Hirer a reasonable administration fee for any work carried out or documentation processed relating to the Liability.
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 23:01
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QUOTE
and any liability resulting from legislation for the payment of fines or penalties for parking, driving or similar offences or contraventions


As we knew already, the above only covers 'fines & penalties, offences and contraventions' and a private parking charge is no such thing (quote the opposite, or the PPC would not be able to issue it!). A private one is based on alleged breach of contract with the driver and represents a charge as a deterrent, not a fine/penalty or offence.

A tip for the future, as you have a leased car, NEVER NEVER wait for something to arrive in the post when the car gets a windscreen PCN! Keep the lease firm right out of the loop by appealing as keeper of the car, on day 26, using the MSE template and ARVAL will never be contacted by most PPCs who are too stupid to know they could:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=4816822

In this case though, as this has happened:

QUOTE
Arval has written to the parking company and asked them to transfer liability of the fine to your address. It depends on the authority on how quickly they reissue the fine. Once you have received the fine in the post you can either pay or dispute it directly with the parking company.


...when you get the NTH in the post, instead use the lease/hire appeal, lower down the first post on MSE, the one written by Edna Basher (Dennis Basher on here).
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blad4
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 13:56
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 23:01) *
A tip for the future, as you have a leased car, NEVER NEVER wait for something to arrive in the post when the car gets a windscreen PCN! Keep the lease firm right out of the loop by appealing as keeper of the car, on day 26, using the MSE template and ARVAL will never be contacted by most PPCs who are too stupid to know they could:


Ah brilliant. Good to know.

Sending the appeal recorded today, which is day 21.
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ManxRed
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 14:24
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Don't send it recorded, send it 1st class, but take it to a post office and ask for a free certificate of posting. Then keep that very safe.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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blad4
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 14:54
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 14:24) *
Don't send it recorded, send it 1st class, but take it to a post office and ask for a free certificate of posting. Then keep that very safe.


Ok thank you
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:17
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To P4Parking, not to TNC I hope (the PCN you showed us tells you where to appeal to - not TNC - and you are close to the time limit).
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blad4
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 08:55
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:17) *
To P4Parking, not to TNC I hope (the PCN you showed us tells you where to appeal to - not TNC - and you are close to the time limit).


Yep well I was going to do it via the online portal but the PCN no. did not work, so I called and they said this is due to it being passed to TNC, meaning I have to do it in writing. Today first class should get there tomorrow, and I should have till the 21st minimum, if it is counted as calendar days not working days
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