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Parking ticket received today, help required please, Manchester parking ticket issued
RDJDMJ558
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 17:11
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I turned up at Manchester airport 10 minutes early to pick the family up. No parking except to pay shed loads of cash for minutes of waiting.

so i drove up to an old favourite, 'Shadowmoss Road' about 2 miles from the airport where i have parked many times before in a long bay that runs alongside the road on the opposite side to the houses, and by the tram stop.
I was parked in the long bay, not outside it in any way.

I'm stopped there for 3 minutes (literally) and my families plane flew over me. I was in the drivers seat, and the engine was running.

There's a tap on the window and a parking chap says to me, very politely and nicely 'excuse me sir, this is parking for residents permit holders only, would you mind moving?'
Not at all says i, and apologised profusely before driving off. Noticing the signs i had never noticed before, as i drove up Shadowmoss Road, and onto the airport.

Today i received a parking ticket from Manchester City Council for £70.00 with an 'if you ask us questions or appeal, it goes up automatically by 50%' line in it.

I do not dispute i parked (or stopped if you prefer), my car there, but the parking chap said nothing to lead me to believe i would be done. If i had known he had done it i would have stayed parked, safe in the knowledge that they wouldn't do me twice while i was there.

So, any advice welcome please if you have the time?
Thanks
Dave
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post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 17:11
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 17:31
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Post the PCN. We've had reports of dodgy behaviour by CEOs here. Is it a PCN or NTO - that will tell us if they claim the PCN was served or not.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.
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RDJDMJ558
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:05
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Hi, its a PCN, and i will upload the PCN here.
It is 5 sides of A4, do i post all pages, and do i redact my address?

Thanks
Dave
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:08
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Yes we like to see all - just redact personal details.

Also see if there are any pics on Manchester's site.

So they're saying you drove away before serving...

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:28
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RDJDMJ558
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 18:46
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here are all 5 sides of the letter i got today.
Please note i have redacted my address, registration and colour.

Thanks
Dave

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:08) *
Yes we like to see all - just redact personal details.

Also see if there are any pics on Manchester's site.

So they're saying you drove away before serving...


The chap hadn't served me, hadn't written anything out, just simply knocked on my window, said 'excuse me, but are you aware this is a residents parking permit parking bay?', 'i replied no, sorry i wasn't aware', and he asked me if i would then move my vehicle, which i did...... all very civilised, and no ticket issued.

Thanks
Dave
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:00
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The CEO or CEOs patrolling the airport perimeter have form - this looks like a fabrication and you no doubt will make an honest witness.

Did you check for pics?
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RDJDMJ558
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:11
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:00) *
The CEO or CEOs patrolling the airport perimeter have form - this looks like a fabrication and you no doubt will make an honest witness.

Did you check for pics?


Just checked and there are 3 pictures.

1) showing me driving away, as i am in the drivers seat, and clearly moving out of that lane as my 2 drivers side wheels are outside the lane markings and the car is at an angle.
2) showing the sign saying 'residents permit parking'
3) an empty road
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:26
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Crucial is if he clearly said do you mind moving. Not acceptable to pretend to warn and then issue as a drive off.
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RDJDMJ558
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 19:30
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:26) *
Crucial is if he clearly said do you mind moving. Not acceptable to pretend to warn and then issue as a drive off.


He did indeed, but i guess its proving it unless he wore a body cam i can call on for evidence, i suppose?
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Incandescent
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:33
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QUOTE (RDJDMJ558 @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:30) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 20:26) *
Crucial is if he clearly said do you mind moving. Not acceptable to pretend to warn and then issue as a drive off.


He did indeed, but i guess its proving it unless he wore a body cam i can call on for evidence, i suppose?

I suspect they wear no body cameras, and even if they did, they would probably mysteriously be found not working in your case ! Where you have a clear case of illegality like this, with a mendacious CEO, it would be essential for you to personally attend an adjudication if it got that far. The civil law standard of proof is applied which is "on the balance of probabilities". Here is it your word against the CEO's.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Sep 2019 - 23:22
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Post the photos I want to see the time stamps in particular. They may help corroborate your case.

Also the London tribunal take the view that the PCN must specify why they are serving by post not just giving both reasons and letting you guess, but the TPT are more forgiving of these errors but it is worth putting

219031206A

The Penalty Charge Notice issued in this case does not comply with requirements of para 2 of the Schedule to the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007. Para 2(h) provides that the PCN must state (underlining added)
“that the penalty charge notice is being served by post for whichever of the following reasons applies—
(i)that the penalty charge notice is being served by post on the basis of a record produced by an approved device;
(ii)that it is being so served, because a civil enforcement officer attempted to serve a penalty charge notice by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle but was prevented from doing so by some person; or
(iii) that it is being so served because a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9.
The PCN must state which of (ii) or (iii) applies, not simply state both leaving the motorist ( and the Adjudicator for that matter) to guess.
As the PCN is legally defective no penalty may be demanded on the basis of it. It is therefore unnecessary to consider other issues relating to the parking itself or other circumstances. The Appeal must be allowed
The Council will understand from this decision that it needs to take urgent action to ensure no further PCNs are issued in this form.


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RDJDMJ558
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 07:45
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You can only save the pictures as PHP files, they seem to have been uploaded to here ok, so i hope they come out
Cheers
Dave
Attached File(s)
Attached File  traffic1.php ( 36.3K ) Number of downloads: 56
Attached File  pcnimage1.php ( 36.3K ) Number of downloads: 45
Attached File  pcnimage2.php ( 31.81K ) Number of downloads: 44
Attached File  pcnimage3.php ( 37.59K ) Number of downloads: 40
 
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stamfordman
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 07:53
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At 11.52, the time on the PCN, there is no car to be seen in the bay.
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RDJDMJ558
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:00
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:53) *
At 11.52, the time on the PCN, there is no car to be seen in the bay.


OK, so does the fact that the PCN say 11.52, and my car is clearly not seen at that time, and indeed not even on that road in the distance (400 yards long) mean that the PCN is incorrect, and as such void?
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stamfordman
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:48
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QUOTE (RDJDMJ558 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:00) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:53) *
At 11.52, the time on the PCN, there is no car to be seen in the bay.


OK, so does the fact that the PCN say 11.52, and my car is clearly not seen at that time, and indeed not even on that road in the distance (400 yards long) mean that the PCN is incorrect, and as such void?



It a point to raise in support of the key legal grounds on which a postal PCN can be served as per PMB in post #11. The CEO gave no indication to you that a PCN was attempted to be served or in preparation - quite the opposite.


Wait for PMB to pop back in as he surely will.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:45
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The start of preparation of a PCN has been found not to be when observation of the vehicle is begun, but when as the regs require the details are started to be entered into the hand held device. this records the time of the start of preparation. So if the car was 400yards up the road at that time the PCN cannot be correct along with the other issue.


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cp8759
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 17:23
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Regulation 10(2):

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)©, a civil enforcement officer who observes conduct which appears to constitute a parking contravention shall not thereby be taken to have begun to prepare a penalty charge notice.

By the time the CEO started to prepare the PCN, it was too late as the car had gone.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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RDJDMJ558
post Fri, 4 Oct 2019 - 12:22
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Hi everyone,

thanks for all the advice and proof that it works, and you guys and gals are great.

this attached begrudgingly sent to me in the last hour.... biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Many thanks
Dave

This post has been edited by RDJDMJ558: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 - 12:38
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