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SJPN - 97 in 70 (motorway)
DerekMRB
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 10:40
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I have got a SJPN for doing 97mph on the motorway. Speeding - exceed 70mph motoway limit - manned equipment.

I was driving and accept responsibility, no excuses.

I have 9 points on my licence, is it a 12 month ban for totting up or will i get a short term ban for this offence only? I accept it may not be cut and dried but I thought I would post here before I fill out the form and post back.

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post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 10:40
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FuzzyDuck
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 11:17
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Unlikely to see a ban for that speed, most likely 6 points which will of course see a totting ban be considered. So the matter will certainly be referred to court. The totting ban is usually 6 months (but can be longer). Best to start preparing your exceptional hardship plea and hope the court is sympathetic .
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Jlc
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 11:19
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You will almost certainly tot. The SJPN won't be able to deal with this and the matter will be referred to a court hearing.

You can submit an Exceptional Hardship plea to reduce the 6 months ban, potentially to none, guidance here:

When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:

It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence.

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable.

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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666
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 11:19
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You won't get a short (or any) ban for that speed. So you're looking at a 6-month totting ban, unless you can prove "exceptional hardship".
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DerekMRB
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 16:13
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I am the sole provider and so a ban that long means I lose my job. Plus I need to travel over 130miles each way to pick up my daughter each week, does that count as exceptional hardship? The journey via public transport means I wouldn't get to her in a reasonable time to have any time with her.

Thanks for clarifying re short term ban.
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Jlc
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 16:27
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QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 16:13) *
I am the sole provider and so a ban that long means I lose my job.

As noted above, losing a job isn't necessarily considered exceptional.

QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 16:13) *
Plus I need to travel over 130miles each way to pick up my daughter each week, does that count as exceptional hardship? The journey via public transport means I wouldn't get to her in a reasonable time to have any time with her.

The impact on others does carry more weight but you don't specify why you 'need' to pick her up - the court will want to know...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DerekMRB
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 16:41
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So I can see her, I am not with her mother any more so as per our agreement I go up and down once a week. My ex doesn't drive so no option of bringing her to me etc. The last time I went more than a week without seeing her it caused a lot of distress for little one.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 17:42
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Well that May count as exceptional hardship to her.
It would help if you could get a letter from the ex to back up what you have said so it’s not just what you (perhaps interpreted by the court) as conveniently claim.


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DerekMRB
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 17:50
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Thank you, I will do that for sure. It is part of our arrangement which includes me still paying towards the house etc too.

Is it best to post the plea or do it online?
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Logician
post Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 22:34
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QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 18:50) *
Thank you, I will do that for sure. It is part of our arrangement which includes me still paying towards the house etc too.

Is it best to post the plea or do it online?


The court will want to see you in person and possibly question you. It will be helpful to have it written out to make sure that you include everything you want to say. You will need copies for the three magistrates, the legal advisor and the prosecutor.

Look at the guidance to the court posted above, and consider how to respond, for instance the lines "If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account." raise the question "You knew you were on 9 points, if keeping your licence is so important to you in order to keep in touch with your daughter, why were you risking it by speeding?" This is a favourite with courts.


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The Rookie
post Sat, 2 Mar 2024 - 14:45
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QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 17:50) *
Is it best to post the plea or do it online?

The court will want to see you there, any ban is immediate so they don’t like banning in your absence as you may not then be aware and be driving while disqualified.

You can write and state that they can ban in your absence and you won’t drive until you are aware of the sentence but it’s unusual.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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DerekMRB
post Mon, 4 Mar 2024 - 13:24
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QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 22:34) *
QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Fri, 1 Mar 2024 - 18:50) *
Thank you, I will do that for sure. It is part of our arrangement which includes me still paying towards the house etc too.

Is it best to post the plea or do it online?


The court will want to see you in person and possibly question you. It will be helpful to have it written out to make sure that you include everything you want to say. You will need copies for the three magistrates, the legal advisor and the prosecutor.

Look at the guidance to the court posted above, and consider how to respond, for instance the lines "If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account." raise the question "You knew you were on 9 points, if keeping your licence is so important to you in order to keep in touch with your daughter, why were you risking it by speeding?" This is a favourite with courts.


Good question! How have others answered that? If I was asked on the spot I would come unstuck!

Thank you all for the advice, I will post my guilty plea and prepare for the court hearing.
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Slapdash
post Mon, 4 Mar 2024 - 14:28
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Whilst picking up your daughter is a helpful point it would be further help to explain why this needs a car.
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Jlc
post Mon, 4 Mar 2024 - 15:14
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QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Mon, 4 Mar 2024 - 13:24) *
Good question! How have others answered that? If I was asked on the spot I would come unstuck!

It's a bit of 'trick' question in some regards. Frankly, there isn't really an answer that applies to you - whilst how the points were gained shouldn't apply when considering an EH plea the bench are aware.

Doing a ton wasn't a 'momentary lapse' of concentration. The bench are likely to consider it a complete disregard for the law in the circumstances.

Quite different to getting caught at 35 in a 30 for contrast.

QUOTE (Slapdash @ Mon, 4 Mar 2024 - 14:28) *
Whilst picking up your daughter is a helpful point it would be further help to explain why this needs a car.

Yes, and that alternatives have been considered. That could include paying for taxi's for example - unfortunately, that may be considered a reasonable expense.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 4 Mar 2024 - 15:12


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DerekMRB
post Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 12:27
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Thank you. My daughter lives over 120 miles away from me.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:04
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QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 12:27) *
Thank you. My daughter lives over 120 miles away from me.

It will still help your case to show you have considered alternatives and the cost and other implications (time), if you show you have taken this seriously, then the court is more likely to take you seriously....


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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roythebus
post Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 16:06
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You say you drive 130 miles a week to see your daughter yet later on you say she lives 120 miles away. There's a bit of a difference. Is it not possible to get her by train?
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NeverMind
post Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 17:10
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 16:06) *
You say you drive 130 miles a week to see your daughter yet later on you say she lives 120 miles away. There's a bit of a difference. Is it not possible to get her by train?


He says he drives 130 miles *each way* and she lives *over* 120 miles away.

That's not much difference! wink.gif
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roythebus
post Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 23:43
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Sorry must have missed that bit!
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DerekMRB
post Thu, 14 Mar 2024 - 11:32
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:04) *
QUOTE (DerekMRB @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 12:27) *
Thank you. My daughter lives over 120 miles away from me.

It will still help your case to show you have considered alternatives and the cost and other implications (time), if you show you have taken this seriously, then the court is more likely to take you seriously....


Thank you I will do that for sure! Looking over £160 return including bus/taxis and I would lose a day as she goes to bed at 7 so with work I wouldn't be able to get up early enough on a Friday. Plus I would end up paying more in maintence due to losing a night a week. Does that matter or will it not be taken into account? No way I could afford to do that more than once a month with those prices.
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