VCS county court claim form, Ticket from Dec 2015! |
VCS county court claim form, Ticket from Dec 2015! |
Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 17:50
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 21 May 2016 Member No.: 84,476 |
Just received a county court claim form from an alleged parking violation in Dec 2015 .
Date of offence - 12/12/15 Letter issued - 24/12/15 Letter received - 30/12/15 Place Selby I responded at the time and told them that as the registered keeper they had failed to notify of me of the charge in time and I wouldn't be paying or telling them who the driver was. I took photos of the signage in the same conditions as the alleged offence (no sign at all on main entry, just some dotted about car park) and that any ref to fine was in small print and not clear in day light let alone a dark night. Of course they just ignored it and continued to harass with BW legal, I ignored and moved house in Aug 17. It was so peaceful for a while! A couple of months ago they sent me a letter to new address, asking for payment. I ignored it. Wednesday I got the small claims form. I want to fight but worry about a CCJ on my record (I know that's why they do it) but I'm cross, I'm not liable and I know they have to prove I was the driver, which they wont be able to do! Can I have some advice please! |
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 17:50
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 18:03
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,053 Joined: 20 May 2013 Member No.: 62,052 |
It only affects your credit rating if lose and fail to pay up within about a month
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 18:30
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
First step
Follow the instructions to acknowledge service Do this now You do not contest jurisdiction (unless you live outside England and Wales) You dispute the entire debt Do not put anything at all in the defence box This gives you an extra two weeks to prepare and send the defence |
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 18:57
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 21 May 2016 Member No.: 84,476 |
Thank you, I had read conflicting advice about the CCJ and just wanted to be sure.
I have done the acknowledgement of service form. |
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Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 21:54
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
If you pay a CCJ within one month, the credit agencies are informed and it's removed from your credit record
A much safer action is to take enough cash on the day of the hearing to pay the judgment if you lose You ask the claimant for a receipt and take it to the court office The claim is recorded as settled and the credit agencies never learn about the judgment |
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Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 20:24
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 21 May 2016 Member No.: 84,476 |
Thanks for the advice.
It's time I need to sort out my defence letter! Are there any sample ones that I can use for a guide? They claim the driver was parked longer than the permitted time and signs were at the entrance (they weren't) and at prominent locations. I'm defending on the points that the signs weren't on the entrance or in prominent locations and the driver did not any contract with VCS. I have photos of the signs taken a few days after registered keeper was notified. The retail park where the car was located was closed so how can there be any loss of revenue? The registered keeper wasnt informed in time of any offence. The registered keeper has already told VCS that the registered keeper was not the driver and can prove this. (Although isn't it up to them to prove the registered keeper was the driver?) |
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Mon, 15 Jul 2019 - 08:59
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
There doesnt have to be any loss of revenue.
Yes its up to them to prove the driver was the keeper. If you can prove otherwise its an easy defence to write ITs been a week - what defences have you already found? Theres a few just on the front page... |
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Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 13:20
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 21 May 2016 Member No.: 84,476 |
Can I have your advice/input on my defence letter. Thanks.
DEFENCE 1. The Defendant was the registered keeper of vehicle registration number XXXXX on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. 2. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct. 3. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. No signage is attached to the main entrance of the car park and therefore the driver did not enter any contract with the claimant. 4. Upon inspection of the signs after receiving the charge notice, the signage is unclear, they are located at a distance and placed so high creating an illegible condition to read the terms and conditions required to enter a contract. The signs do not comply with BPA Code of Practice. 5.Furthermorem, such is the density and complexity of the text on the sign that the most onerous term – the parking charge – is buried amongst a mass of small print and does not comply with Denning MR’s “Red Hand Rule 6. The doctrine of contra proferentem applies and the interpretation that most favours a consumer must prevail; that being that the driver(s) did not see or accept the sum the claimant says they did 7. The POFA, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery 8.The POFA, schedule 4 paragraph, where the registered keeper is informed by post of a parking charge states the notice must be given by sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period. The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended. A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales. The letter to the registered keeper was received on 30/12/15 some 18 days after the alleged offence. 9.The claimant is pursuing the registered keeper on the assumption that they were also the driver. The defendant has previously informed the claimant they were not the driver and has medical proof to back up their claim. The claimant was not interested in seeing any proof so the defendant invites the claimant to prove they were the driver at the time of the offence. 10. There is no such obligation in law to identify the driver and this was confirmed in the POPLA Annual Report 2015 by parking expert barrister and Lead Adjudicator, Henry Greenslade, who also clarified the fact that registered keeper can only be held liable under the POFA Schedule 4 and not by presumption or any other legal argument. This post has been edited by Deso: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 13:37 |
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Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 15:13
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
6 - Contra Proferentem is for an 'ambiguous' contract term where the consumer can take the most favourable interpretation. (Not that they may not have seen the signage - Indeed, if the signage was sufficient and clear then the act of parking 'accepts' the contract even if the driver did not see or read it)
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 18:54
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
8 to save argument point out that the delivery is deemed to have been on the 28th, two working days later, and 16 days after the event but still leave in the actual date received
This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 - 18:56 |
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Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 17:35
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 21 May 2016 Member No.: 84,476 |
Thank you both, I will edit it accordingly.
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