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PCN for parking in a P&D bay with time limited residents parking permit allowance
TheDangerman
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 21:02
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Hi,

I'm new to residents parking permits and have been misled by a confusing sign, or at least, I genuinely believed I was parking in the right place. Hopefully the photos will be clear. Any grounds for challenging it?

I've moved the car now but all other bays on the street don't have this restriction, and we are 10 minutes walk from the High Street! Having thought about it they really penalise shift workers and discourage ad-hoc public transport use if first you have to move your car for the workday! Oh well rant over, hope someone can help!

Many thanks.



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post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 21:02
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cp8759
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 20:51
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Sign looks clear to me, post the council photos.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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TheDangerman
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 06:28
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There are other pictures including a token test, and a picture of my residents permit, but this is the only photo of my car with the sign. Sorry for the dodgy obscuring of my car, but its highly distinctive in the area being a classic. Hence why they couldn't work out the Make of the vehicle.

I understand the sign now I've studied it but it caught me out because all other bays bar this bank of 3 just say "Permit Holders Only" , so I thought it meant Pay and Display was allowed, not required. Added to this someone parks semi permanently in the next one but turns out he has a blue badge.

Many thanks.

This post has been edited by TheDangerman: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:37
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:07
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The sign is inadequate if it provides drivers with differing times to purchase a ticket. The top section indicates 8.00 to 9.00, then a gap until 1600. One would believe at a quick glance that a ticket was not required after 9.00. However the bottom section indicates a ticket is required between 9.00 and 1600.

IMO this sign does not fulfil the Council's duty not to confuse or mislead under Reg 18 LATOR 1996.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:30
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?
IMO, it's perfectly compliant. What else could it be, it couldn't be 09.00.01 because this is not a permitted expression of time.

On Mon-Fri, up to 9am permits apply, 9am - 4pm they don't.

Just make a simple challenge asking for discretion - new permit holder who presumably lives in the road - just getting used to the variety of signs used etc.

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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 10:18
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@hca

The top sign also says pay and display so it is not solely about permits. I'll stick to it being inadequate. The bottom part looks like a later addition IMO. The requirements of this shared use bay could have been much better indicated.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 10:22
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cp8759
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:27
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QUOTE (TheDangerman @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:28) *
There are other pictures including a token test, and a picture of my residents permit, but this is the only photo of my car with the sign.

Are there any other council photos of the sign? If the council hasn't got (readable) evidence of what the sign says, they don't have a case.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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TheDangerman
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 05:34
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Many thanks for the replies so far.

That's the clearest photo of my car with the sign, there's a standalone picture of the sign that is very clear but does not show my car. All others just show me parked in a generic bay.
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hcandersen
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 07:00
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Permits have to be dislayed because that's one of their stated terms of use. Display is not required to be stated on the sign.

Permit identifier, pay at machine and display ticket, see items 7 and 2 of the Part 4 Sign Table:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made
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TheDangerman
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 09:19
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If that is that clearest photo they have and its unreadable to me, is there a specific wording I need to use to lodge the appeal?
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 12:29
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I'm with Mick on this. The main sign says permit holders or, we know how signs are made up but the man on the Clapham omnibus doesn't. In this case the addition of the word only in the second plate would have made it obvious
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cp8759
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 18:00
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:29) *
...the man on the Clapham omnibus doesn't.

Surely the man on the Clapham omnibus gets around on the omnibus, so he doesn't concern himself with parking matters?

On a serious note, I this it's (slightly) more likely than not that an adjudicator would say the sign is compliant.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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