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Private residential parking ticket
Jen_Jen1985
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:35
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Hi, Im looking for some advice on behalf of a friend.

They were visiting a friend and parked in the resident underground car park. The driver parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge but has received a ticket as they weren't displaying a resident permit.
Whats the best way to deal with it?
The keeper has been told her to ignore as another friend has had 3 tickets and they've never been chased for them, I said I don't think you should really ignore as I know the law changed a few years back but wanted to check with people who know more about these things than I do.

Thanks for any help you can offer and if more information is needed then let me know and I'll get the info from my friend.

This post has been edited by Jen_Jen1985: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 18:19
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post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:35
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cabbyman
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:39
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Which company issued the ticket?

Was it a windscreen ticket (Notice to driver - NtD) or a postal ticket?


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Jen_Jen1985
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:42
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P4Parking and was a windscreen ticket
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cabbyman
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:59
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On that ticket will be a date for appeals; probably 28 days. If so, at day 25/26, the RK should appeal with a text that we will assist with. The timing is crucial because we are attempting to give them a name and address before they apply to DVLA. Have a look at other threads to get more information on this.

Meantime, please provide pics of the signs and a copy of the NtD, suitably redacted of personal information.

Finally, but probably most CRUCIALLY, please EDIT your original post to avoid identifying the driver.



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Jen_Jen1985
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 20:07
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Have edited, thanks.

They are reading this post and trying to send me a copy of the ticket and parking signage for me to post for them.
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Jen_Jen1985
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 20:22
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Here is the ticket and parking signage in the car park.

This post has been edited by Jen_Jen1985: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 18:17
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Bumble62
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 21:22
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This ticket was left on my vehicle. There are only two designated parking areas, an underground parking area and a small above ground parking area for residents and visitors. The above ground disabled bay is too far for me to walk when parked there. The area is very hilly and the slopes are such that I am unable to walk on them, not to mention the distance being much more than I could ever manage. Today, as it was my granddaughter's birthday, I needed to be parked within walking distance, so as many times in the past, my car was parked in a disabled bay in the underground car park. My blue disabled badge was displayed on the dashboard.

As another visitor was expected, who would have to park in the above ground car park, and who did not have a blue badge, they used the only available residents parking permit.

I find all this very distressing as I am not in the best of health either physically or mentally, and have just come home and cried. It's too much for me to deal with, and I don't know what to do. I'm scared, as I don't have enough even to pay the £60 reduced fee. I find things like this difficult to cope with, as I have Aspergers/Autism, and I know I won't sleep until this is sorted out.

Any help would be very much appreciated.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 06:26
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EDIT your post now, you're giving too much away, you are the cars keeper and there was a driver, too separate legal entities, describe what each did as 'the driver' or as 'the keeper'/I.


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Bumble62
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 13:52
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I'm not sure which parts you mean need editing. I've not used my real name, not stated where this happened, not stated how many people were in the vehicle or if I was alone or with someone.

I don't mean to sound dumb, I genuinely don't understand what part needs changing.

I've tried to go onto the site mentioned on the ticket to appeal it, but it just comes up with an error message and I can't proceed.

Can anyone advise please? Many thanks in advance.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 13:58
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The ticket still has the ref no on it. It needs editing.

Given Bumble's post, may I respectfully suggest that Jen Jen may wish to continue overseeing the thread. Things MAY become a little stressful for a new participant. Although these are perfectly easily winnable, some of the concepts will be very unfamiliar. Two heads may be better than one.

In this respect, Bumble's post #7 URGENTLY needs EDITING to avoid identifying the driver.

I will try to find time over the next couple of days to compose a day 25/26 letter, unless someone beats me to it in the meantime.


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Eljayjay
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:01
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Bumble62

I do sympathise with the driver. At the same time, however, I would be doing the driver no favours if I failed to make a couple of things clear.

Reading between the lines of your post, it does seem that the driver believes they had a right to park in the disabled bay as a result of being a blue badge holder.

This is a residential car park. There is no overarching legislation that compels a residential car park to provide all residents with parking spaces. It does, of course, follow that there is no overarching legislation to provide residents' visitors with parking spaces. Generally, whether or not a resident or visitor is a blue badge holder is totally irrelevant insofar as a residential car park is concerned.

The signage in this car park shows that a little (but not much) importance has been attached to blue badges. In effect, the signage states that a blue badge holder can park in a disabled bay there provided that the blue badge holder also displays a parking permit.

It seems clear that the driver is not a resident of the development and, that being so, the driver has no right of his/her own to park there.

On the assumption that the person visited is the leasehold owner of, say, a flat on the development, it is possible that person may have a right to permit visitors to park there, but the only was of determining whether such a right exists and, if it does, what terms apply would be to study the visited person's lease.

You may find that the lease saves the day - it often does in a residential car park - but the driver would be putting him/herself at risk of collecting more tickets if he/she continue to park there without checking what the lease says.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:02
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cabbyman
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:16
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Eljayjay, this won't be helped by the lease but most residential cases can be won without the lease; the lease just makes it a slam dunk.

There is plenty here to win with if Bumble wishes to carry the fight to them.

Bumble, I have re-read your post and editing does not appear to be necessary.

Wait for a few days. One of us will come up with a letter to send. Please DON'T try to contact P4Parking unless we have first suggested it or checked your wording. For more information read this link: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=4816822

Please don't panic. We will talk you through this. Most will be at work at the moment and I have time pressures preventing sensible thought this afternoon.


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Eljayjay
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 15:46
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cabbyman

I accept that the driver or keeper may be able to defend this without recourse to the lease using your usual strategies and tactics.

What I would question is your assertion that "this won't be helped by the lease". It may very well be helped by the lease depending on what the lease has to say about the leaseholder's rights insofar as visitors' parking is concerned.

More than that, however, is what appears to be a very dodgy presumption (not yours) that the driver has some sort of right to park merely (that may not be the best word) because of disability.
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Bumble62
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 12:48
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The land where this occurred, is owned by a Housing Association. Some of the properties are social housing, some are private. Following a telephone call to the land owner this morning, who have said that
under the circumstances, they are happy to provide a parking permit as the only disabled bay above ground is too far from the entrance and on uneven ground. They said to contact P4Parking who
issued the ticket to tell them this, and that P4P will check with the land owner and to call them back tomorrow to pay £5 for the permit once they have confirmed this. Apparently, the
ticket should be appealed in writing within 14 days, and is likely to be refused, but will generate some number that needs to be used for the next step. This is so stressful.
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Bumble62
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 12:36
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Hi everyone,

It's now day 18 since this infernal parking ticket was issued, and is still causing severe anxiety and distress. Can someone please explain in simple terms
what has to be done next please?

In an appeal, do you give the exact reason as to why the vehicle was parked where it was? Legit reason, if parked off site, vehicle would have been too far away and
impossible for disabled person to walk on steep incline to visit family.

Thank you in advance.
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Redivi
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 13:09
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Apparently, the ticket should be appealed in writing within 14 days, and is likely to be refused, but will generate some number that needs to be used for the next step.

Understatement of the year
I would put the chances of refusal at 100%

P4Parking is, to all intents and purposes, the old Nighthawk Security company
This was a notorious clamper that turned to aggressive ticketing when its practice was banned

Whoever employed P4P to manage the parking clearly failed to make any checks

I would base the appeal on the inadequate signage



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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 17:16
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I see that Eljayjay has confused matters by talking about the lease, as per all his posts on here and on MSE. There is no point and it took your eye off the ball.

QUOTE
P4Parking and was a windscreen ticket


Easy stage, just send the usual online appeal (blue writing) shown here on MSE:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=4816822

You already had that link in post #12 and cabbyman's advice was correct except there is no need to 'come up with an appeal' seeing as the MSE tread has a template there in blue writing, for the registered keeper to submit online on day 26 (reason for delay IS explained in the linked thread). Please do read it.

Then the PPC turns down the first appeal (forget the stupid discount bribe and do NOT get anxious about the scam PCN). With the rejection letter or email, the registered keeper gets a POPLA code.

Then they look at post #3 of that thread for POPLA templates, and put those together in a much longer appeal, and come here and show us to make sure it's right at POPLA stage. And/or search both forums for P4Parking POPLA to see the style & length of a decent POPLA appeal and to read some we won earlier!

NO SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING IN THE APPEAL - NO ADDING ANY WORDS ABOUT BLUE BADGES.

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Eljayjay
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 00:45
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Bumble62
One of the great things about this forum is that you are free to take advice from whomever you choose. Unfortunately, of course, that choice brings with it some difficulties...

SchoolRunMum
I wonder whether or not you may wish to explain to Bumble62 why over twenty of your recent posts on MSE have been deleted.
Could it be that MSE’s Forum Team thought they were inappropriate?
I wonder also whether or not you might like to explain why you, who contributes on average over thirteen posts per day on MSE, has not posted anything there since, I believe, Monday, 8 October.
Could it be that MSE’s Forum Team were so concerned about your posts that they have suspended or banned you from making more?

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 00:48
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:57
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Elijay - i have noticed that nothing in your post actually contradicts SRMs conclusions here, and hasnt provided a clearer route for the OP than here?

OP - in general posters with a few thousand posts are more trusted than those with fewer, because usually within that period any of those with agendas that arent necessarily aligned with the point of this forum get exposed by their actions.
Just a note.
Not everyone is who they appear to be. A "new" poster might not be new at all, but a returning user.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 23:34
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 01:45) *
Bumble62
One of the great things about this forum is that you are free to take advice from whomever you choose. Unfortunately, of course, that choice brings with it some difficulties...

SchoolRunMum
I wonder whether or not you may wish to explain to Bumble62 why over twenty of your recent posts on MSE have been deleted.
Could it be that MSE’s Forum Team thought they were inappropriate?
I wonder also whether or not you might like to explain why you, who contributes on average over thirteen posts per day on MSE, has not posted anything there since, I believe, Monday, 8 October.
Could it be that MSE’s Forum Team were so concerned about your posts that they have suspended or banned you from making more?


Obsessively reading all my posts on both forums, and reporting them avidly, getting me banned about once a year by MSE for daring to suss who you are, and then weirdly re-counting the number of my MSE posts and working out how many you think were removed, is a form of stalking (again, as you already know).
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